Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

SShink · 3K+ Club

A little front end work

BLyke · 1K+ Club

Well that was a short lived reprieve form the CAC, but it looks like a quick trip...
As long as you can avoid the old "while i'm at it....."
Looking forward to seeing the car later this year.

Lost in the 60s · President

Too late now, but the Global West offset shafts will allow more positive camber for better handling and the poly bushings help response.

Honestly, now is the time to do the brake conversion, or you will be removing the coil overs and knocking the ball joint studs out all over again.
Patience, there's no where to go for the next few weeks anyway.
Dig in and Git-R-Done..

more ambition than brains · 1K+ Club

Can you spell "project creep"?
Karl

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Vote # 2 or more for the disc brakes and a larger 1 1/4" sway bar. You may as well have fun in the garage.

SShink · 3K+ Club

more ambition than brains wrote:
Can you spell "project creep"?
Karl

You're spot on Karl. I'm not doing the brake conversion since there is some work redoing brake lines at the prop valve, and I'd rather get some driving miles on the car. Besides, those drums just about put me through the windshield now. They're the best brakes I've had on any muscle car. Maybe it's because the engine actually pulls some vacuum. Lol

Mitch, the replacement shafts I bought sound similar to the GW ones in that they're to allow for more adjustment than stock, so will see when I have it aligned.

The driver's side is all back together now, and I'll get the passenger side done this week to drive it on the weekend. I've done so many coil change overs I can almost do this in my sleep, so no big deal this winter when I go with the disc's.

Bobs_Place · Vice President

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Too late now, but the Global West offset shafts will allow more positive camber for better handling and the poly bushings help response.

Honestly, now is the time to do the brake conversion, or you will be removing the coil overs and knocking the ball joint studs out all over again.
Patience, there's no where to go for the next few weeks anyway.
Dig in and Git-R-Done..

There are also tall upper ball joins available that can help camber/positive caster.

I'm replacing the original front spring as they have settled, need to get back some header clearance. I may end up using so of these components to help get some positive caster when done.

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

There is no such thing as PROJECT CREEP! I know from experience it never happens that way. But while I'm in here I could also just get this done.
Maybe I'm wrong could I get a second opinion from Derek on dent repair on a 1/4 panel?

Lost in the 60s · President

Hmmm... I didn't see where the upper shafts were offset. How do they allow more positive caster ? I'm interested in that.

Got to bring this up, and you probably already know this, but did you install the coil-overs with the crossbar on top of the control arm ?

Lastly, 90 degree plug wire boots = pita. The silicone assembly lube/corrosion preventive for ignition makes for a plenty slippery enough lube to allow the boot to slide on the wire with minimal frustration before you clamp on the terminal end. I bend the boot back as much as possible while pushing the wire thru. NOT getting the lube on your hands and having them all slicked up is the hard part. You have the sequence right, it's much easier to slide the boot back down than to try to force it over the, non-bendable, terminal after.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Hmmm... I didn't see where the upper shafts were offset. How do they allow more positive caster ? I'm interested in that.
Got to bring this up, and you probably already know this, but did you install the coil-overs with the crossbar on top of the control arm ?

Here's the link to the offset upper control arm shaft I bought at AZ: LINK It doesn't really say how it's accomplished, but I'm guessing it's in the orientation/angle of the shaft casting when bolted in.

Yep, I installed the crossbar on top of the control arm.

SShink · 3K+ Club

I set her back on the front tires to see how far off I was with my guess on the driver's side coil base, and looks like I'm about 1.5" too low!

The driver's side is 23.5" to the top of the fender and the passenger side with the stock coil is at 26". Looks like 25" is the magic number for me.

Also looks like I'll need to install the set of 1" lowering springs for the rear I have sitting on the shelf to balance things out, but will wait to see how the whole thing looks when I get the front end dialed in.

Lost in the 60s · President

Yeah, that left side is too low. Again, you probably know, but get the weight off the left side to turn those nuts up, or they can bind and gall. Lubricate the threads too.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Almost finished up the passenger side last night and went to put the castle nut on the lower control arm ball joint shaft, and darn it if the top threads weren't bunged up enough that the nut won't even start to thread on. Pretty sure I didn't damage it taking the hub arm off it, and it did fight me coming off so I'll blame the last guy to touch it. I tried filing the lead threads a bit, but that didn't help.

So now it's off to AutoZone to buy a new lower control arm ball joint to replace this one.

It's always something when working on old cars.

I have the front end alignment scheduled for Friday, so hopefully this is the last issue.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

That really is an awesome looking 442.. Did you get the bearing set and slip washer to go with the gland nuts? Mitch is right need to go up a tad.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Well the front end work is all done and going to get aligned in the morning.

It rides and handles really nice, but not done. It needs a larger 1-1/4" front anti-sway bar in the front and that will tighten things up nicely since it has a stock 15/16" bar now.

I've got the front end height where I like it, but now the rear is a tad too high IMO. I have a set of 1" lowering rear springs, so may put those in and see how that rides. The last time I had them in the '71 Chevelle, it rode pretty stiff in the back with those same lowering springs. Just can't leave things alone.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Here's the final alignment results thanks to Derek's recommendations.

After a quick test drive it follows the road nicely.

Lost in the 60s · President

The stance looks good, just needs bigger rear tires...

If you lower the rear now, after the alignment, it will change the alignment specs some.

DRIVE IT !!!

Bobs_Place · Vice President

I agree with Mitch "DRIVE IT !!!"

Looks good as is.

Changing the rear ride height could upset D/L angles.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

What size TA radials do you have now Stan? I also plan to put in a bigger sway bar from 7/8" original for a Malibu to a 1/4" of a early 70's GM product. I had to get the universal brackets for the bushings and then modified them a little so they look like the original 66 brackets.

SShink · 3K+ Club

jim larson wrote:
What size TA radials do you have now Stan? I also plan to put in a bigger sway bar from 7/8" original for a Malibu to a 1/4" of a early 70's GM product. I had to get the universal brackets for the bushings and then modified them a little so they look like the original 66 brackets.

I have 235/60/15's on all four tires currently.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Bobs_Place wrote:
I agree with Mitch "DRIVE IT !!!"
Looks good as is.
Changing the rear ride height could upset D/L angles.

I settled on rotating the tires and went for about a 40 mile drive yesterday so now I have almost 200 miles on the trans now.

Bob, I would like to come over to your place sometime and put the 442 on the lift and get your expert opinion on the D/L angles as I do have a drivetrain vibration around 65-70 mph, then it goes away. I don't have adjustable upper rear control arms, so not sure how else to adjust?

Lost in the 60s · President

Having the front a little lower now did change the drive shaft angle, but I can't imagine it was much.

Having a vibration isolated at 65-70, doesn't seem like a d/l issue to me, but never say never.

Where do you feel the vibration ? steering wheel, shifter, seat, floor ? Knowing this can help isolate the problem area. I would lean towards tire balance, especially since you rotated tires and now noticed the issue.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Having the front a little lower now did change the drive shaft angle, but I can't imagine it was much.
Having a vibration isolated at 65-70, doesn't seem like a d/l issue to me, but never say never.
Where do you feel the vibration ? steering wheel, shifter, seat, floor ? Knowing this can help isolate the problem area. I would lean towards tire balance, especially since you rotated tires and now noticed the issue.

It had the same vibration before I rotated the tires. It seems to feel like it's coming from the rear of the car, which made me think pinion angle.

With the original Muncie setup at that highway speed the engine was at or over 3000 rpm so it was loud in the car and I don't know if it had the vibration originally.

I do think the tires may need to be balanced as there is a slight vibration in the front end, so should probably have them all checked. The previous owner bought them used, so not sure how balanced they are.

Lost in the 60s · President

Yeah, he may have just had them thrown on and not balanced. Did you notice any weights on them, during the rotation ?
Could still be driveline related, but I would be getting the tire balance checked/corrected for sure and go from there.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Good luck, those vibrations can be mind boggling and irritating. some rims and tires Will never balance as I experienced. checking you angles will give you piece of mind. May as well have that done when balancing the tires. Shops should have a much more accurate gauge then most of us.

Bobs_Place · Vice President

SShink wrote:
Bobs_Place wrote:
I agree with Mitch "DRIVE IT !!!"
Looks good as is.
Changing the rear ride height could upset D/L angles.
I settled on rotating the tires and went for about a 40 mile drive yesterday so now I have almost 200 miles on the trans now.
Bob, I would like to come over to your place sometime and put the 442 on the lift and get your expert opinion on the D/L angles as I do have a drivetrain vibration around 65-70 mph, then it goes away. I don't have adjustable upper rear control arms, so not sure how else to adjust?

Glad to look at it.

As for the vibration, I would not expect that correcting D/L angles will fix a vibration. However any time there has been any kind of a drive train modification, the angles should be looked at. As I recall the vib was there before the trans was changed and with the trans change you got and installed a new and balanced shaft, correct? That should eliminate the shaft, maybe. There is also a possibility of a bad yoke, which would cause the shaft to orbit center. I have an example of that on my car!

A tire vibration will feel more like a shake as opposed to D/L vib which would be more of a buzz. With a tire vibration you may actually see the hood shake for example. A D/L vibration would be a higher frequency than a tire shake, on your car I would estimate about 3.55 times higher. We can spin the shaft without the tires if need be.

To adjust the diff on my car I egg shaped the holes in the upper control arms than welded washer on to them to locate the diff at the angle I wanted, that gave my very good numbers. This is sometimes hit and miss, can be time consuming. Chris S.'s car all we needed was about a 1/4'' shim at the trans to correct his D/L angels.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Interesting about the hood vibration Bob. Thats exactly what I had with the former bias tires I was using. They would not balance.

SShink · 3K+ Club

The rims do have weights on them, so they were balanced at one time or another.

The hood does have a bit of a shimmy/shake even at lower speeds, which is why I rotated the tires thinking if there was a change, that would show up.

I'm going to take the rims/tires off the car today and take them to my local shop and have them balance checked and for straightness. Maybe one of them is bent. They are original Olds 15x7's so who knows. Figured this is the easiest place to start.

Bob if that doesn't help, we'll dig into the driveline angles. Thanks

SShink · 3K+ Club

Here's what my local mechanic found on the wheels/tires:

3 of the 4 tires have flat spots (Yes, radials can get flat spots too. I didn't use to think so, but he left one on the balancer and showed me)

1 of the 4 tires balanced perfectly with no runout on the rim

I put the best of the bunch on the drivers front side, then the rest on the car. It definitely improved the 65-70 mph vibration as well as the low speed shake in the front end.

Bob, I'd still like to have you take a look at my driveline angle sometime just to make sure it's 'right'. Maybe it will be like Hank's and as easy as a washer under the trans mount since they are similar trans/driveshaft setups.

I do suspect the front passenger side hub bearing though as that's where the vibration mostly seems to be coming from, so when I swap out the brakes for disc's I guess I'll find out. Now that the car is running/driving good I'm hearing some of the other issues...

Bobs_Place · Vice President

Did your tire guy think the tires were flat spoted from skidding or sitting for a long time like over the winter? I had mine balance last summer, the tire guy told me "oh ya tires flat spot all the time over the winter when you store the car with out putting it on stands". Well, I'v been storing vehicles for over 40 years, some summer also and never flatted all 4 tires or even 1 that I know of!!!! Do all BFers flat spot from sitting?

Checking angles takes literally minutes! Adjusting them can sometimes be timely. And as I said before any alterations the angles should be checked. All 3 cars, Chris's Hank's and mine all needed adjustment after minor changes.

Did you spin the right front hub during the front spring replacement? We'll check it when we check angle.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

My SS sat the last 4 winters on BF Goodrich tires from Diamond Back tires, they put a redline on the TA radials. Just drove it on Sunday for the first time. Not a hint of vibration. Evidently there is a difference between the BF tires for Coker and those from Diamond Back for the redlines, Coker uses silver town and diamondback uses TA radials. At least that is what all the tires guys say on Team Chevelle. I have yet driven the 66 convert with the new TA radials from last summer.

firestone-wide-oval-radial-gr70-14.html Its only $, spend that $2,400.

-- Edited by jim larson on Wednesday 22nd of April 2020 07:03:19 AM

-- Edited by jim larson on Wednesday 22nd of April 2020 07:08:18 AM

SShink · 3K+ Club

Bobs_Place wrote:
Did your tire guy think the tires were flat spoted from skidding or sitting for a long time like over the winter? I had mine balance last summer, the tire guy told me "oh ya tires flat spot all the time over the winter when you store the car with out putting it on stands". Well, I'v been storing vehicles for over 40 years, some summer also and never flatted all 4 tires or even 1 that I know of!!!! Do all BFers flat spot from sitting?
Checking angles takes literally minutes! Adjusting them can sometimes be timely. And as I said before any alterations the angles should be checked. All 3 cars, Chris's Hank's and mine all needed adjustment after minor changes.
Did you spin the right front hub during the front spring replacement? We'll check it when we check angle.

Yeah the mechanic told me it's from sitting that caused the flat spots. I didn't believe it either until he showed me one on the balancer and spun it up.

I suspect the front passenger hub bearing because it did make some nose when spinning it without the wheel/tire on it when I did the coil overs. I'll give you a holler and we can take a look at it and the driveline. Thanks

Lost in the 60s · President

SShink wrote:

I suspect the front passenger hub bearing because it did make some nose when spinning it without the wheel/tire on it when I did the coil overs. I'll give you a holler and we can take a look at it and the driveline. Thanks

C'mon Stan, pull it off and at least pack some fresh grease in it. Better still clean and inspect. Those bearings cost about 5 bucks to replace. They don't give much warning when they dry out and overheat. They seize up and then spin on the spindle and that is then, usually, toast too....

It doesn't seem you are going to do the disc swap until fall and I sure as heck wouldn't trust a noisy bearing that long. A few hours and $20 could well prevent a dangerous situation while driving and an expensive haul back home...

Lost in the 60s · President

Bobs_Place wrote:
Did your tire guy think the tires were flat spoted from skidding or sitting for a long time like over the winter? I had mine balance last summer, the tire guy told me "oh ya tires flat spot all the time over the winter when you store the car with out putting it on stands". Well, I'v been storing vehicles for over 40 years, some summer also and never flatted all 4 tires or even 1 that I know of!!!! Do all BFers flat spot from sitting?

I had 1 set of BFG T/A's on my IROC years ago and my opinion is they are a low grade tire, intended for show cars that want a period correct appearance. Mine had horrible traction and handling issues, when pushed very little. I attempt to convince people to step up to Cooper Cobra radials. They are still a mid grade tire, as far as performance is concerned, but I've had much better luck with them for smooth ride and good tread wear, while having the white letter look people seem to want.

No, radials really shouldn't flat spot from sitting and if they do, should return to round after enough miles to warm up. My '38 sits all winter and I haven't experienced any issue beyond the first few miles. I'll try to pay attention when I get it out this year, but we all know what the "first drive" turns into...

BLyke · 1K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
I had 1 set of BFG T/A's on my IROC years ago and my opinion is they are a low grade tire, intended for show cars that want a period correct appearance. Mine had horrible traction and handling issues, when pushed very little. I attempt to convince people to step up to Cooper Cobra radials. They are still a mid grade tire, as far as performance is concerned, but I've had much better luck with them for smooth ride and good tread wear, while having the white letter look people seem to want.
No, radials really shouldn't flat spot from sitting and if they do, should return to round after enough miles to warm up. My '38 sits all winter and I haven't experienced any issue beyond the first few miles. I'll try to pay attention when I get it out this year, but we all know what the "first drive" turns into...

Nice to hear you have had good results on the Cooper Cobra radials. I'm looking at replacing my tires soon and was planning on using them.

The ones on the car are still in really good shape, but are around 20 years old and are bias-ply.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
SShink wrote:

I suspect the front passenger hub bearing because it did make some nose when spinning it without the wheel/tire on it when I did the coil overs. I'll give you a holler and we can take a look at it and the driveline. Thanks
C'mon Stan, pull it off and at least pack some fresh grease in it. Better still clean and inspect. Those bearings cost about 5 bucks to replace. They don't give much warning when they dry out and overheat. They seize up and then spin on the spindle and that is then, usually, toast too....
It doesn't seem you are going to do the disc swap until fall and I sure as heck wouldn't trust a noisy bearing that long. A few hours and $20 could well prevent a dangerous situation while driving and an expensive haul back home...

You're right on this one Mitch. As many times as I've had that passenger wheel/tire off I could have replaced the bearing a few times now...

SShink · 3K+ Club

BLyke wrote:
Nice to hear you have had good results on the Cooper Cobra radials. I'm looking at replacing my tires soon and was planning on using them.
The ones on the car are still in really good shape, but are around 20 years old and are bias-ply.

Unsafe at any speed if they're nearing 20 years old and especially bias ply in my experience Bruce. Get those suckers changed out IMO!

Even if they have a lot of tread left, they can let go at that age. That's why tire shops won't touch them if they're 10 years or older. I think some shops stop at 5 years or older now.

67ss · 1K+ Club

Stan I am pretty sure the wheel bearings for drum brakes are the same for disc brake. So if you put in new bearings you can swap them into the rotors when you convert it. Assuming you are going the stock single piston disc brake route.

-- Edited by 67ss on Wednesday 22nd of April 2020 04:57:53 PM

more ambition than brains · 1K+ Club

I believe static tires may take a "set" that should go away after driven and warmed.
I prefer to see my tires balanced when warmed up first.

It is also my belief that Sun and temperature variations do a great deal of damage to rubber.

On a typical passenger vehicle driven regularly, but exposed to the elements the 5-7 year program is a good plan.
Spent $500.00 on a trailer fender last summer because I chose to try and stretch another year out of a nice looking set of tires on my Featherlite, Poor decision.

I have a set of BFG RWL, radials 20 years old, less than a thousand miles on them.
Gorgeous, no cracks or hint of aging.
They are currently under the white Elky.

Did I learn my lesson yet??
Tune in later.
Karl

SShink · 3K+ Club

Bobs_Place wrote:

Did you spin the right front hub during the front spring replacement? We'll check it when we check angle.

Hi Bob-PM sent about checking the angle. Thanks

SShink · 3K+ Club

I've figured out that Auto City Classics is waaaaay too close to my house (about a 10 min. drive) for A body parts, so I stopped by this week and picked up a 1 1/4" front anti-sway bar, end links, and bushings from our friend Denny.

Just got it in tonight and went for a short drive, and it tightened up the front end and handling to where I like it. Not too harsh, but not wandering around either.

Bobs_Place · Vice President

SShink wrote:
I've figured out that Auto City Classics is waaaaay too close to my house (about a 10 min. drive) for A body parts, so I stopped by this week and picked up a 1 1/4" front anti-sway bar, end links, and bushings from our friend Denny.
Just got it in tonight and went for a short drive, and it tightened up the front end and handling to where I like it. Not too harsh, but not wandering around either.

What size bar cam off, looks like 1"? Mine is a 1 1/8, wonder if the 1 1/4 over the 1 1/8 would make much difference.

Lost in the 60s · President

And Denny is ALL too willing to help us spend our money too...

bowtie · Secretary

It's almost too easy to make that call isn't it?

We have a clean stock '57 Chev in the shop getting a "connect and cruise" package which means new engine, new 4L65E trans and the stuff to make it work. EXCEPT all the other stuff that it will need like radiator, motor mounts, trans mount, hoses, overdrive shift indicator, AC bypass pulley for the accessory drive kit, exhaust, etc.

Anyone know of an Auto City Classics type place in town that does tri-five stuff?

Chris S · Active Member

Last time I was in Auto City one of the other salesman were ordering all kinds of stuff for a tri five. I believe they do a lot of that too??

SShink · 3K+ Club

Chris S wrote:
Last time I was in Auto City one of the other salesman were ordering all kinds of stuff for a tri five. I believe they do a lot of that too??

Yep, I think their core business is the 55-58 Chevy's including Impala's. The 68-72 A body parts seem to be a not well known secret. I think half of the parts used on the '72 Malibu convertible we restored came from there; hood, trunk, windshield, and many many small parts. I told Denny they need to beef up their website about the A body stuff.

Denny will also match or sometimes beat pricing if you give him a comparable. At one time, the club had a 10% discount, but I think Denny just tries to be as competitive as they can.

I highly recommend reaching out to Auto City Classics and talk to Denny.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Bobs_Place wrote:
SShink wrote:
I've figured out that Auto City Classics is waaaaay too close to my house (about a 10 min. drive) for A body parts, so I stopped by this week and picked up a 1 1/4" front anti-sway bar, end links, and bushings from our friend Denny.
Just got it in tonight and went for a short drive, and it tightened up the front end and handling to where I like it. Not too harsh, but not wandering around either.
What size bar cam off, looks like 1"? Mine is a 1 1/8, wonder if the 1 1/4 over the 1 1/8 would make much difference.

Bob, the stock one I removed was a 7/8" bar, so a big change to the 1 1/4" bar. IMO changing from 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 would not be as big of a difference, but I'm not the handling guru in the bunch. Maybe Derek will chime in.

SShink · 3K+ Club

bowtie wrote:
It's almost too easy to make that call isn't it?

We have a clean stock '57 Chev in the shop getting a "connect and cruise" package which means new engine, new 4L65E trans and the stuff to make it work. EXCEPT all the other stuff that it will need like radiator, motor mounts, trans mount, hoses, overdrive shift indicator, AC bypass pulley for the accessory drive kit, exhaust, etc.

Anyone know of an Auto City Classics type place in town that does tri-five stuff?

I'll bet Brad Wilder would know on the tri-five stuff since he restored his '57?

Derek69SS · Founding Member

A 1-1/4" solid bar is a little over 1.5 times as stiff compared to a 1-1/8" solid, and is 4.2 times the stiffness of a 7/8" solid.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Derek69SS wrote:
A 1-1/4" solid bar is a little over 1.5 times as stiff compared to a 1-1/8" solid, and is 4.2 times the stiffness of a 7/8" solid.

I would have never guessed that. So 1 1/4 bar is about 4+ the stiffness of a factory 66 Malibu 7/8 bar and probably about 4 times that of the SS 15/16 bar.

And the 1/8 bar is close to 2.75 times that of the Malibu or SS bar.