Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

Lost in the 60s · President

Round 3.5 on the '66

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

Jeez.. I though some of the stuff I found on vintage snowmobiles was "farm based"

How about a sawed off chunk of bolt forced into a hole that was NPT ...?

-- Edited by Tony Hoffer on Friday 20th of November 2015 07:17:47 PM

SShink · 3K+ Club

Isn't it amazing Mitch how solid a car can look until you start grinding off paint/bondo? I learned on mine that if you see a 'little' rust... there is a lot more somewhere underneath.

Lost in the 60s · President

SShink wrote:
Isn't it amazing Mitch how solid a car can look until you start grinding off paint/bondo? I learned on mine that if you see a 'little' rust... there is a lot more somewhere underneath.

Yup, a "little" rust is just like an iceberg.

Lost in the 60s · President

Made the first cut...pretty well committed now...

I removed the remnant of the extension skin and found more rust than I hoped for...

THERE, I fixed it...don't I wish...:(

Started cutting out the cove damage.

67ss · 1K+ Club

Are you going to have the whole body blasted once you get eveything Patched?

Lost in the 60s · President

That would be nice, but no. Not in the budget. What it REALLY needs is a chemical dip to remove the rust in all the in-accessible areas.

I will do the rust converter to stop the spread and then epoxy seal it.

Lost in the 60s · President

Cut out the rust on the right side. It was worse than the left and there's rust damage in the upper radius.

But wait, there was no inner flange under the cove panel. It is misplaced inboard by 1/2" !! There were no spot welds to grind out because the flanges aren't even close.

Oh well, I'll deal with the mis-alignment later. I ground out the rust in the radius, made a patch and welded it in. First repair complete...

SShink · 3K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Cut out the rust on the right side. It was worse than the left and there's rust damage in the upper radius.
But wait, there was no inner flange under the cove panel. It is misplaced inboard by 1/2" !! There were no spot welds to grind out because the flanges aren't even close.

Was that a factory issue, or prior work gap, pun intended...?

Lost in the 60s · President

SShink wrote:
Lost in the 60s wrote:
Cut out the rust on the right side. It was worse than the left and there's rust damage in the upper radius.
But wait, there was no inner flange under the cove panel. It is misplaced inboard by 1/2" !! There were no spot welds to grind out because the flanges aren't even close.

Was that a factory issue, or prior work gap, pun intended...?

It may be a Monday car.... The piece is there, just not in the right place. Actually, I just looked up a May 1966 calendar and the chassis was built on a Thursday, so the body was built either Wednesday or Thursday too.

I WAS going to try to ignore it, but it holds the inner window trim and that is right on the edge of the glass, instead of overlapping a 1/4", like the other side. I would also like the flange to support the cove skin.

My OCD is whining loudly to cut it, re-position and weld it up again....

-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Wednesday 2nd of December 2015 05:18:00 PM

SShink · 3K+ Club

And that my friends... is why I feel most cars are over restored compared to original factory 'quality' levels if the build is supposed to be '... just like it came from the factory'.

I'd correct it too if I had your skills and knowing you are this far into it, and that way it will be done right.

Jon H · 1K+ Club

Looks like it is going to be a long winter the the shop.

Lost in the 60s · President

Jon H wrote:
Looks like it is going to be a long winter the the shop.

Barely scratched the surface of what will happen to this car over the next 5-6 months...

If you get bored, stop in. Oh, that's right, you abandon us and stay warm in AZ.

Lost in the 60s · President

John and I worked on getting the extension panel fitted yesterday.

Seems I missed taking a pic of it laying on the car and getting marked for the first cut, as seen here.

Checking fit after the first cut and marking for further work, such as flanging it to fit under the original panels.

And final fit. I accidentally removed too much of the rear edge and the flanger marks are much further ahead of the seam than I like but it is what it is.

Lost in the 60s · President

Today, my infernal OCD got the best of me over the misplaced inner structure under the right cove skin.

You can see how far the structure flange is from the skin flange. It even has a buckle where it got twisted out of position by something at the factory.

I drilled out the welds holding the headliner flange for a better view.

The flange should be down on the package tray.

Like the left side.

I crawled in the trunk and under the tray to cut a relief slot in the base of the panel. It did move in the right direction and I was hopeful this would be easy

Yeah, right....

Then a cut the top free, hoping it would pop right into place....

After about a half hour of tugging, prying and swearing, as evidenced by the vise grip teeth marks in the flange, with little to no progress, I gave up and cut the whole damned thing out.

Once I had the flange straightened out from someone exerting brute force, I clamped it in the proper place and clamped the piece of the cove back on. That all lines up perfectly. I can't say as much for the inner structure, but I'll deal with re-joining that after the window opening repair is done.

SShink · 3K+ Club

I knew you couldn't leave it alone. But now it's where it's supposed to be and done right.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

You will have to have another meeting this winter so we can see your expert work first hand.

Chris S · Active Member

I didn't figure it would take too long to hear you were fixing this. Smart move Mitch, fix it right otherwise it would always bother you. Looking good.

John D · 2K+ Club

What just kills me is that 50+ years ago "unit XYZ123"... (Mitch's car) was rolling down the line...

There had to be about a thousand "W*F's" muttered, then another 1000 "who gives a sh*t... the dealer will fix it" and it continued down the line, got finished, and sent off to whoever ordered it.

I think it was Karl at one of his tech-sessions about panel-fitment that mentioned something along the lines of "plus/minus 1/4" of close was "good"" back then. These cars were SLAMMED together with STACKS of shims and brute-force panel alignment. The days of 1/8" gaps were a dream.

(To look at it another way, the thing's still rolling around 50 years later... can't say the same about most stuff made in the 90's)

Lost in the 60s · President

Not a lot of progress, as I am back working 3 days a week at Centerline on someone else's rusted out junk, BUT I'm getting paid to do it...

John and I got the cove skin fitted last week, after a major "uh-oh" on my part that we won't go into here...

Lost in the 60s · President

Today, we started the strip down for January's tech session, and to get Chris's engine stored on the shelf for the winter.

Less than an hour before this pic was taken, I could've started and drive it out of the shop.

We removed the tires and lowered it to make it easier to pick the clip off by hand.

All ready to come out.

Less than 5 hours to get to this and a pile of parts...

SShink · 3K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Today, we started the strip down for January's tech session, and to get Chris's engine stored on the shelf for the winter.

Sounds like Chris R. has a 'new' engine on the way for his '66 to get it back on the road?

Lost in the 60s · President

Yep, he bought it but won't do anything with his car until next summer now.

Bungy L-76 · Active Member

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Yep, he bought it but won't do anything with his car until next summer now.

You could have probably ended that sentence after the word car.

............................says the guy who's Chevelle hasn't seen the light of day in 15 years.

Lost in the 60s · President

I talked to JIT in Farmington today and am scheduled to drop off the frame and parts January 19th....

SShink · 3K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
I talked to JIT in Farmington today and am scheduled to drop off the frame and parts January 19th....

Is that the place that does powder coating for John Deere? If so, that's where I had the frame and suspension parts done for the Malibu, and things have held up good after 3 years.

Lost in the 60s · President

SShink wrote:
Lost in the 60s wrote:
I talked to JIT in Farmington today and am scheduled to drop off the frame and parts January 19th....
Is that the place that does powder coating for John Deere? If so, that's where I had the frame and suspension parts done for the Malibu, and things have held up good after 3 years.

It's the same place. I was referred there by Tim H.

I had the frame and suspension done there for the '47 coupe at Centerline a couple years back.

Chris S · Active Member

Mitch are you taking the body off at home before the Bowtie Brunch?

What all do we have to do that day on your car?

Lost in the 60s · President

Chris S wrote:
Mitch are you taking the body off at home before the Bowtie Brunch?
What all do we have to do that day on your car?

Body will be off. I will bring the rolling chassis only. We will remove everything down to the bare frame.

It's more of a hands on experience for those who have never done this or seen a chassis stripped bare. Really shouldn't take more than an hour or so.

Karl will have more to do stripping his Impala down the rest of the way to where he wants to be.

Lost in the 60s · President

Between working at Centerline and Christmas, I didn't touch the car until today. I resumed working on the right inner structure that I cut out. The package tray sat too high on that side too and needed a tab to weld the structure back to, so I resigned myself to the drudgery of moving the tray.

The strap I have laying on the window well should be level. It sits much too high where the body wasn't aligned when slapped together.

There was only a partial spot weld holding it on, so I knocked it off and pushed it down. The strap sat flush.

Next was to reinforce the tray and provide metal where the hole is on the right. That's where the brace welds on.

Once that was in, I positioned the brace and welded that in too. This looks like it went quick from the pics, but I spent 3 HOURS fitting these pieces to get them in the right location.

I set the cove panel in place to check alignment. It looks good, but I set the glass in to, as that is the real test of fit.

It is sitting on the head of the drill screws, so it didn't sit flush but the gap is very even. It should seal with buytl tape.

-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Thursday 31st of December 2015 04:00:44 PM

Lost in the 60s · President

Today, John and I got the body all ready to come off the frame next Tuesday. Friday we will continue working on the rear window

Lost in the 60s · President

Tuesday, I welded a tab under the left side to reinforce the tray.

Today, we prepped the car and panel for install.

After wetting the anti-vibration insulation with penetrating oil, I put it in place on the inner structure.

Good, bad, or ugly, it is becoming one with the car...

more ambition than brains · 1K+ Club

You are amazing!!!
Karl

Lost in the 60s · President

more ambition than brains wrote:
You are amazing!!!
Karl

Thank you...

Today I final fitted and tacked in the right cove skin. I added a backer plate to hold the panels in alignment and have material to weld too where I had a wider gap than I wanted.

John and I stopped at that point to grab a bite to eat and then it was "get ready for Bow tie Brunch" time.

We already had 95% of the body ready to pull and it took more time to drag everything out and get ready than to lift the body and get it on the roto.

Lost in the 60s · President

Chevelle Club tech session...

Lost in the 60s · President

Today John and I stripped the control arms of bushings and ball joints. The black lowers are from Chris P. I decided to leave the grey ones intact, as they have new ball joints and urethane bushings. I'll put them on the Malibu sometime this summer.

I had added a gusset plate inside the frame and an angle iron on the bottom edge 3 years ago, to reinforce the rusted frame. Today my CDO got the best of me and I decided to eliminate the angle iron on the edge. One thing led to another and here we are...

I cut as much of the rusted original frame out as I could get at. I will leave the gusset plate I put in and will build the frame back with new material.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote

I cut as much of the rusted original frame out as I could get at. I will leave the gusset plate I put in and will build the frame back with new material.

I bet you are glad your CDO got the best of you.

Lost in the 60s · President

I had some duplicate pics on PB from failed uploads. I apparently deleted one that was posted above. Here it is again.

After removing part of the angle iron, I made a cardboard template for the leg patch and cut it out of a piece of 12 gauge, same as original.

Took some convincing to flange the 12 gauge to go under for plug welding.

I had to leave the rest of the angle for the patch to weld too. The gusset was too low.

Locating where to drill plug weld holes.

Once I had that patch started to hold things in place, I welded what I could of the original leg to the gusset and sprayed everything inside with rust converter.

Then I fabbed the C channel patch.

My "bending brake"...

I chamfered all the edges to fill with weld.

Chris S · Active Member

Looks nice Mitch.

You will sleep better knowing it is fixed right I'm sure.

Lost in the 60s · President

I wasn't really concerned about safety. I had Centerline check it after I welded in the gussets 3-4 years ago and the frame was near perfect. As Karl demonstrated with his tape measure, it's only off by 1/16" after those years of driving and some hard launch drag racing too.

I just couldn't see leaving it with unsightly cosmetic issues. Obviously, there's no way I would do this repair after powder coating, so it was now or never.

Lost in the 60s · President

Chris S · Active Member

Very nice! How did it turn out?

Lost in the 60s · President

Chris S wrote:
Very nice! How did it turn out?

Everything is still wrapped up but from what I've looked at, it's 1,000 times nicer than rust...

67ss · 1K+ Club

Is the frame black or the silver you were using before. Hard to tell in the picture.

Lost in the 60s · President

Charcoal Grey with a little pearlescent.

I asked the manager how big of an object they could bake. They have several ovens and he showed me a few. The largest is 48 FEET long, 8 feet wide and high. They bake street light poles in them.

A car frame is a toy compared to some of the stuff they have handled. They had a couple dump truck bodies once.

Lost in the 60s · President

Had to include a pic of the, almost, assembled chassis after the meeting. I'm waiting for lower control arm bushings that UPS didn't get here on time.

Just as a reference and fun, this is the car the day after it was delivered, Sept 28, 2010. I didn't remember I have had it this long.

This is about 6 weeks later. I had driven it 16 miles and then parked it in the shop. The steering was so sloppy, it wandered like a lost dog. That was just the beginning of the "discovery" as lawyers like to say. The car was a cobbled mess.

This year is the third time the car has gone thru major dismantling and repairs over a winter. It has always been driven again the next summer.

Lost in the 60s · President

I did get the rest of the control arm bushings on Monday after the meeting and assembled the rest of the chassis.

I was going to sand blast the inner rockers and supports this Tuesday but the weather didn't co-operate, so I did it today.

That's 50# of Black Diamond on the plastic. I sweep it up and screen it right back in the blaster. I did that 5 times today and still have almost all of it.

After 4 hours of messing around, I had as much done as I wanted.

Then back in it went. I may start cutting out the rust over the weekend.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Mitch, have you ever used copperweld or other spray on rust preventative between panels before welding?

http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/sem-products-copperweld-weld-through-primer/manufacturer-paint-color/copper/application-style/aerosol

Are you going to blast the entire underside? What will you coat it with? What will you do to cleanup the drivers panel underside seams, will you weld the bottom or use seam sealer?

-- Edited by dashboard on Wednesday 16th of March 2016 11:02:39 AM

Lost in the 60s · President

The copper on all the seams is weld thru primer. SEM is quite proud of their product at $22 can. I get mine from work. They buy it by the case, so I get their discount cost of $15. It is a smaller can tho, so the SEM may not be that much higher.

The inner rockers, particularly at the cowl/kick panel are much worse than I realized. I will be cutting out some of the floor pans to gain access and replacing the inner cowl and reinforcement brace before patching the inner rocker and welding the pan back in. The driver pan I installed a couple years ago got edge welded all the way around inside and seam sealer on the bottom. The raw edge in the roto pic was under the frame at that time and not accessible to seal. It will all be dealt with in a better manner now. Once all the repair work is complete, I will blast the entire bottom and spray it with SPI epoxy sealer. I spend a lot of time on the hot rodders forum and many of the people posting in the body forum swear it's almost as good as sex for stopping rust from growing under it.

Lost in the 60s · President

The lower cowl/kick panel areas are very rough on both sides. The reinforcement plates are completely rusted out, along with the inner cowl panels. I am picking up both inner rockers, the rear floor support and a right side floor patch from Auto City Sat morn and have both sides reinforcement plates and the left outer cowl coming from AMD thru Summit. This turned into major surgery that I really didn't want to get into, but it needs to be addressed and repaired properly.

Yesterday, John drilled out spot welds and then cut out the right rear support for repair while I attempted to replace the trans filter on my 2011 K1500.

Rust, blasting sand and and corn kernels in the rocker.

-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Wednesday 16th of March 2016 08:50:09 PM