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Post Info TOPIC: New reason to join the CAC


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As a few of you know we had some issues with the 71 today.

Cheryl smelled gas shortly after we left, and it turned out it was leaking as the tubing went into the carb.

That was easy to fix., however when we put it in the garage, I noticed an odd fluid on the floor by where the driver's side rear wheel had been.

Thought it might be brake fluid, but it failed the smell test (Cheryl's nose is FBI certified for detecting even the faintest smell and determining the source).

Jacking the car up and pulling the rear wheel and drum revealed a big mess and it was not from the wheel cylinder, but the shoes were soaked. 

Put a little 90 Wt. on a paper towel and Cheryl confirmed it was the axle oil that she originally smelled from the floor.

Tooks like replacing the bearings and seals is not look be too difficult (famous last words) 

Time to head off to YouTube training academy.

Please feel free to share your own "true life adventures) on your own cars.

It's a 10 bolt cac 23.jpg



-- Edited by BLyke on Saturday 16th of September 2023 07:19:45 PM



-- Edited by BLyke on Saturday 16th of September 2023 07:20:59 PM



-- Edited by BLyke on Sunday 17th of September 2023 07:29:20 AM



-- Edited by BLyke on Sunday 17th of September 2023 08:28:25 AM

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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

1971 Malibu Convert

 



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Sorry to hear Bruce, those surprise issues are never fun.

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Jon H.  Lino Lakes



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Not a bad task Bruce. Seal replacement is fairly easy, check the condition of the bearing and bearing surface on the axle. Might as well do both sides since you’ll have the diff cover off anyway.



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Chris S.

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We just did that job on Gavin's car earlier this season (along with a bunch of other stuff).

It's not too difficult of a job, but something to keep in mind... When we pulled the diff cover off, a few small pieces of a pinion gear thrust washer fell out! Subsequent fishing around with a magnet retrieved (we hope) the other 99.9%. Chris & Chris did a power-run back to one of their shops and retrieved a good, used washer to install.
Also someone (I think Chris P) brought along a slicko slide-hammer bearing puller. A few whacks and the bearings were out of the axle housing in seconds (possible auto parts store rental item?)

The Prez was looking for a November meeting idea... but I'm guessing you'd like to get this job done while we've got cruising weather to burn.

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John D wrote:

We just did that job on Gavin's car earlier this season (along with a bunch of other stuff).

It's not too difficult of a job, but something to keep in mind... When we pulled the diff cover off, a few small pieces of a pinion gear thrust washer fell out! Subsequent fishing around with a magnet retrieved (we hope) the other 99.9%. Chris & Chris did a power-run back to one of their shops and retrieved a good, used washer to install.
Also someone (I think Chris P) brought along a slicko slide-hammer bearing puller. A few whacks and the bearings were out of the axle housing in seconds (possible auto parts store rental item?)

The Prez was looking for a November meeting idea... but I'm guessing you'd like to get this job done while we've got cruising weather to burn.


 Thanks for the suggestions!

The tools to pull and install seem like the way to go and i do think they may be available from the parts store.

Will defiantly do both sides. (and the brake shoes)

Not sure if I will get to it before the 7th, if not November may be an option.

Good chance to learn how to do something new.



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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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Chris S wrote:

Not a bad task Bruce. Seal replacement is fairly easy, check the condition of the bearing and bearing surface on the axle. Might as well do both sides since you’ll have the diff cover off anyway.


 Will do, thanks 



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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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Be prepared to have the car down while new axles are being sourced/obtained. The axles are a "consumable" in many GM differentials, as they are the inner bearing race for the outer bearing and most are worn beyond their life expectancy at more than 50 years old.
As for parts, I don't recall where Gavin got his bearings/seals from, but they were quality parts that actually fit. I bought outer bearings from NAPA this summer that were undersized and loose in the axle housing, so the old ones went back in for now. Just saying, talk with the other people in the club for info and reference. You tube is popular, but, as with anything on the web, I've come across a lot of misinformation and incorrect procedures on there.

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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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I would also check the pinion for any looseness, up and down, in and out, than once the cover is off take a pry bar and pry the carrier back and forth. If you find movement in either the pinion or carrier, you may have more to do than just wheel ends. Hopefully every thing is good.  



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Bob W.

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Starting to investigate and (if the sound works) is this a normal sound?

Planning to replace the bearings and seals on both sides anyways.

thanks 

 



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rear end.mov (7,679.3 kb)
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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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That is a perfectly normal sound....for seriously worn bearings and axle.

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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Lost in the 60s wrote:

That is a perfectly normal sound....for seriously worn bearings and axle.


 There seemed to be a little bit of noise as of late.

So, guess it is time to replace the parts as needed?

Pull the axles out first to see how they look?



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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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Wondering if this is a slippery slope and the "While I'm at id might just as well do XYZ too" should just be the plan?
Assuming there are a lot of parts to be replaced and you can just buy a kit with the whole works?

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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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I think the noise its the side gears, if you can get a helper, have him/her rotate the the other side as you spin your side, both in the same direction with the trans in neutral, the noise should be gone or very little.



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Bob W.

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We don't know if that vid has the cover off and lube out. If it is still assembled with lube, that is still way too much noise to be coming from side gears.

As far as slippery slope, yes, open up the carrier, remove the pinion pin but DON"T turn the axles or pinion after that is out.
Once the pin is out, you push the axles straight in and remove the c-clips. Then the axles will come out. Pull them out far enough to see the wear and decide if you need axles. Bob suggested a pry bar test on the carrier and pinion bearings as well. I would slip the pinion pin back in before doing that test, as something may turn and the pinion gears can come out of alignment. You may want to rotate the gears thru a couple turns to "feel" if there is any roughness/binding to the rotation. If the carrier/pinion pass the test, at that point, you can pull the pin, shove the axles back in, replace the c-clips and pinion pin and have the ability to move the car, if desired, while you wait for parts.
SEE ?? Piece of cake for an old hand such as yourself...thumbsup



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Still has lube.
Will study the process and proceed with caution.
Can the brakes stay in place (at least on the side i didn't take apart)?

Thanks guys

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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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No need to touch the brakes.

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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Looks like its time fir new shafts too, assume that should be smooth.rolleyes

thanks for the tips on how to tackle this job.



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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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Yep, there is the growl you heard when rotating that one.
Talk to Chris P or Gavin about parts...

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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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thanks
Gavin gave me the info

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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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Well Mitch I would have to disagree, although very worn, I don't see anything on either axle that would cause that noise, also bearing typically will only make noise when loaded.

Bruce, the one axle also shows high wear, unlike Gavin's axles which were showing a fatigued failure, two different types of failures, both high miles. This could be caused by some type of contamination and a lube that has been run for 30 to 50 years, wear metals from spin out causing thrusts to burn is somewhat likely with these cars unless granny was behind the wheel. So I would check for parts of thrust washers/sludge in the bottom of the housing, next when you pull the pin for the spider gear and check for wear or galling. But don't forget to wiggle the diff case with a bar before you take things apart.

-



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Bob W.

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Bobs_Place wrote:

Well Mitch I would have to disagree, although very worn, I don't see anything on either axle that would cause that noise, also bearing typically will only make noise when loaded.

Bruce, the one axle also shows high wear, unlike Gavin's axles which were showing a fatigued failure, two different types of failures, both high miles. This could be caused by some type of contamination and a lube that has been run for 30 to 50 years, wear metals from spin out causing thrusts to burn is somewhat likely with these cars unless granny was behind the wheel. So I would check for parts of thrust washers/sludge in the bottom of the housing, next when you pull the pin for the spider gear and check for wear or galling. But don't forget to wiggle the diff case with a bar before you take things apart.

-


 I can send a picture once I get back into it. the center gears look good and seem tight.

The drivers side seal was leaking oil, but the rear end was still pretty full, just a little below the fill hole.

It may be a few days before I get back into it.

As a newbie on doing this your input as subject matter experts are appreciated.

As I have seen from various online information and videos there are a lot of variations on what to do.

the sounds of Bad bearings (on fand drives for ovens or conveyors) is something I have a bit of experience with.



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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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Sounds as if you may have avoided the slippery slop, with the gears tight, that tells me the thrusts are in place and not burn/worn out, and assuming you have checked for loose pinion/carrier I see no reason to go dig deeper. Not to say things are prefect inside, should still get plenty more miles out of it.

Mitch's comment about axle being "consumables" is spot on, but, they are still axles not bearing, therefore axles used as a bearing will not live as long. Axles need to be able to handle the torsional loads and therefore would not live if there surface were as hard as a bearing surface.

When you get your axle end bearing out, look inside of them at the rollers for pitting/spalling also outer race if you can see it, chances are they will look good.



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Bob W.

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Thanks Bob and Mitch, I have the parts on order, from Quick Performance, same parts as Gavin used.
Advanced Auto in Lakeville has a bearing puller (very nice) that is basically free to use.
Maybe it will actually be back on the road for the 7th?

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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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Almost back together also replaced the u-joints (as long as the car was up in the air any ways)
the parts from Quick Performance came today, ordered Friday afternoon.
Any suggestions, beyond not leaking to measure the quality of my repair?
It is not as noisy.rolleyes



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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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Once the diff is "full", I always use a jack and raise one side of the axle to get the lube to the opposite bearing/seal, leave it for 10 minutes, rotate the axle a half dozen times and then reverse the process for the other side. After you level the axle off again, wait 10 minutes and then recheck fluid level. It will most likely be only slightly down, but I like to be certain the bearings will have full lube to start with.
Nice easy test drive for a few miles and then...

 

a couple burnouts to break everything in...laughing



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Thanks for the tip, Mitch!

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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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I guess i am technically out of the CAC again.
Test drove the car a bit today around home and it seems fine.
New U-Joints have eliminated the clunk when shifting back and forth.
Costed downhill in neutral, with the engine turned off and my head out the window and could not hear anything from the rear end.
Full speed test drive will have to wait a little as other things get done.

Thanks for the help!

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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

1971 Malibu Convert

 

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