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Post Info TOPIC: Factory Five Mk4 Roadster Build - 40 Watt Garage
John D


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RE: Factory Five Mk4 Roadster Build - 40 Watt Garage
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Some of these are too orange, some too brown, but it could be the lighting... This is the general idea however



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
BLyke


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Looks like they do good work!

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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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The second pick with the black outlining the white stripe I think looks awesome. The white outlining the white not so much. 



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Chris P
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Larry Lucast


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I agree with Chris. But it isn't our car.

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Larry L.

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John D


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Each "color" add to the job adds $$$ to the overall price guys... It's one more lap around with tape, paper, paint, sanding/prep, etc...!

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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

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more ambition than brains


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Cost is ALWAYS a relevant consideration.

However, you probably only get to do this once.
There is already a significant investment of time and $$$$$ in this beautiful build, try to make it "Just" the way you want it.

Am amazed by your attention to detail and fabrication efforts.

Glad you are almost there.

Karl

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more ambition than brains wrote:

Cost is ALWAYS a relevant consideration.

However, you probably only get to do this once.
There is already a significant investment of time and $$$$$ in this beautiful build, try to make it "Just" the way you want it.

Am amazed by your attention to detail and fabrication efforts.

Glad you are almost there.

Karl

 I'm with Karl. Don't "regret" not adding that one more trip around later on. You've done a meticulous job of building it, find the extra funds for what you REALLY want and enjoy the results.

I have more "regrets" on the painting of my Chevelle than I care to remember....banghead



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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John D


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I hear ya guys...

Personally I'm not a fan of the offset color/divider color on the stripes, so I'll probably not do it.
My worry is that the final color I'll choose will be a 3-stage... no way out of a big upcharge from the original quote!

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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

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John D


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However, you probably only get to do this once.

 

stirpot



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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John D wrote:

However, you probably only get to do this once.

 

stirpot

 His and Hers, or for flipping   headscratch



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Derek69SS


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Daytona Coupe!?!?!



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Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN

69 Malibu Pro-Touring stroker LS1-383/T56 - 69 SS396-325/3spd project
John D


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A cookie for Derek!

After a season of driving this beast, I've realized I (we're) getting to be a little "old-fartish", and really do appreciate the comforts that an enclosed car can offer. Don't get me wrong, the Roadster is the most fun you'll ever have with your clothes on, but the planning, logistics, and restrictions put a damper on the potential activities - especially in our climate.

There are soft tops available, but they are not a "real" convertible top. It's either on or off, and all's they do is get you less wet. When it's "off", it's either at home or taking 80% of your already minimal cargo space. The wind buffeting is also fatiguing.

I'll keep #9365 for awhile after paint, but then probably sell it to fund a Daytona Coupe project.

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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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Then a GT-40 after that? stirpot

Does the Daytona Coupe have enough room for an HVAC system? Or is there enough airflow in the closed cockpit to be comfortable?



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Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN

69 Malibu Pro-Touring stroker LS1-383/T56 - 69 SS396-325/3spd project
more ambition than brains


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Now the Budget takes priority.

Like real estate, only invest in what the "masses" will pay for.

No Gold faucets, crazy colors or swimming pools.

Cars are the same.

For many of us the real fun is the creation of our dream, not necessarily using it.

However it is nice to be able to do both.

On to the next dreamtiphatthumbsup

Good catch Derek.

Karl



-- Edited by more ambition than brains on Tuesday 27th of October 2020 09:16:31 AM

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The Daytona is outfitted with a full HVAC system, but lacks "real" functional windows... more like lexan panels with sliders.


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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
John D


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Been a long while since an update... October of 2020

Last real news was the trip to Indiana to drop the car off at "My Body & Paint Guy" - Jeff Kleiner. Even though our schedules meshed (as far as me getting there and him being there), my spot in his queue wasn't up yet. He was doing final cut & buff on a body, then re-assemble, then another entire car, then mine. Throw Christmas & New Year in there and we're to present day.

Like most places, he's got several balls in the air at once, and jumps back & forth between cars - so #9365 wasn't totally ignored. He started dis-assembly (trim, brightwork, windshield, etc.) as time permitted to get ready for rough bodywork.

The 2nd car was completed, and 9365 could finally move into the "dirty room". The body was pulled from the frame, the rough cutting (trimming the wheel & grille openings), and body seam sanding work done. The 1st coats of "mud" went on last week.

 

 



-- Edited by John D on Monday 11th of January 2021 05:25:22 PM

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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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"He was doing final cut & buff on a body, then re-assemble, then another entire car, then mine. Throw Christmas & New Year in there and we're to present day."
"The body was pulled from the frame, the rough cutting (trimming the wheel & grille openings), and body seam sanding work done. The 1st coats of "mud" went on last week."

WOW, he really moves along, to get all that done in 3 months. The guy I took my Chevelle to in Virginia had it for 4 months and NEVER touched it, until I said I was coming to take it back.

You'll be heading back down in another 6-8 weeks to retrieve it.

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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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John D


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Jeff has a distinct advantage... He only does FFR cars, primarily Roadsters - and this is all he does. He's a one-man shop too.

He knows all the sore spots, what & where needs attention, and when you contact him for a time-slot you get a laundry-list of "DON'T DO THIS, DON'T DO THAT... I'll take care of it". (He doesn't have to do a lot of re-work).



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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Good to see it is progressing!

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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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John D


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RE: Factory Five Mk4 Roadster Build - 40 Watt Garage - Bodywork Progress
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Progress Report

The body is back on the chassis. Jeff's starting door, hood, and trunk fitment. All panel gaps & fit need to be done with the body on the chassis, with it torqued/tweaked as it will ultimately wind up, so the hinged panels will line up at final assembly. The other variable is this allows for you to torque/tweak the body in certain areas to get the doors to fit well.

One of the key elements for body fitment on a FFR MkIV is the front attachment of the "QuickJack" plates, Bumperettes, or (now) the Bumperette/Hoop assembly. The through-bolts/sleeves for these, with rubber grommets in the body pretty much locate the nose of the car. There are rubber blocks on the engine compartment side rails (concealed by the hood opening lip) that establish the nose height, but the bumper bolts lock the side-to-side.

Up until a few weeks ago, the oval hoop was it's own piece. There was a flat metal flange/strap welded to where the ellipses meet, and you drilled & bolted to the sides of the bumperettes. FFR changed the design and made the hoop & bumperettes one piece (the hoop is welded onto the bumperettes). I've got the "New & Improved", waited better part of 18 mos. for it, and it's probably a low number in the 1st batch of accepted parts by FFR.

There's good & bad to the one-piece design. The good is it's much cleaner looking, without the exposed mounting(s). The bad is you lose a lot of potential "fudge-ing" possibilities to get it to fit right and be square to the nose.

The part that is giving Jeff fits is... (and this is all FFR Roadsters, not just mine) the nose opening isn't perfectly symmetrical, nor is it square/perpendicular to the car centerline. The bumper hoop fore/aft to nose distance & squareness is established by shimming (washers) under any of the 4 protruding bolts... but if you change the up/down or left/right of the bolts you affect the alignment of the nose of the car to the chassis... See where this is going? At best the fitment will be a compromise of best appearance. No way around it.

Pics are of initial bolt-on of the bumper assembly. I'm guessing the bumper(hoop) will be out further from the nose, at that optical illusion sweet-spot where you really can't tell the nose isn't perpendicular or is it the bumper, or is it the... ?? 

 



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
John D


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Just Bangin' along...

Latest pics from Jeff. As you can see there's quite a bit of work blending the body edge to the door, and the door upper to the cowl. 



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

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Geez... does this guy sleep?!

Just a few minutes ago....

"John,

Hood & trunk lid are now on, adjusted, shaped and gapped and the windshield is installed. I'll put the sidepipes on in the AM to recheck their fit, set the scoop and at that point the mockup will be done...then it all comes apart again."



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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Have you picked a color yet ??? looks like you don't have much more time to decide...hyper



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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John D


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I think we've narrowed it down to 3 contenders...

The objective was a coppery/burnt orange - that would "POP" in sunlight, but not go to "Mud" in shadow... but not into the tangerine orange end of things. The stripes would be an off-white, with a hint of pearl. He's got a favorite pearl white he's used on many cars, so I'll trust his judgement on that.

The pic of the Roadster is one he did a few years ago (I don't know the color name). The SUV is Nissan's "Monarch Orange", and the Challenger is "Sinamon Stick".

Once I narrow it down he'll shoot a few test panels and send them to me.

(The 2020 Hellcat "Sinamon Stick" is a top contender right now)

 



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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Hellcat is a nice color. Can you find a pic of one in sunlight to see how far it washes out, like the Nissan ? I like the Nissan, but would need the pearl toned down, so it doesn't go so yellow.

I found one. It does go lighter. Seems to be rather dark without bright light. I've been looking at this same color palate for the '38 for 3 years now and it is very hard to pick one...banghead

?u=https%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.co

e7b788518c70fcd22b9bbe950680388a.jpg



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

Lifetime member of the "Cars apart Club"

Some Assembly Required

1966 Chevelle SS 396 M20

1970 Chevelle SS 396 M20

1967 Camaro SS/RS 350 M20
John D


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RE: Factory Five Mk4 Roadster Build - Overall Bodywork pt.1
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Geez Mitch... You're throwing crazy body-guy JuJu to Indiana. Latest pics from Jeff:

 



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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More Pics:

 



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
John D


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Factory Five Mk4 Roadster Build - 40 Watt Garage
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The Nissan "Monarch Orange" doesn't do it. It goes too yellow in bright light.

The following Roadster pics are of the car Jeff did awhile ago... it's a Dodge color "Mango Tango". A little more on the brown-side (in shadow) of the Hellcat "Sinamon". I think some test panels are in order...

 



-- Edited by John D on Thursday 21st of January 2021 05:11:10 PM

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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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I've seen Mango Tango on a couple street rods and it's a cool color...thumbsup



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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1970 Chevelle SS 396 M20

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I have firmly decided to paint my 79 Malibu some shade of green. Unless I change my mind. I like all of those samples you posted so now the color question is open again.

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Larry L.

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John D


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Update...

Panel fitting & Gapping is done. Witness marks & attachment points established (so the body will go back on the chassis in the same place) and it's "lift off". The next time the body will meet the chassis is after color for final fitment.

RoughDone.jpg



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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DANG, it's like 3 pm on December 24th...hyper



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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1970 Chevelle SS 396 M20

1967 Camaro SS/RS 350 M20
John D


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Had a call from Jeft after lunchtime today...
He complimented me on the build quality, and ease of dis-assembly/no surprises/service-ability aspect of the car.

During my body fitment stages I called him several times for "coaching" as to what to do to minimize rework, and make it easier - his tips paid off.

As it turns out, my initial body fitment attachments (rocker area) were nearly perfect - he just elongated my original mounting holes slightly. The nose height of the car was off, but nothing easily corrected (didn't have to rebuild the bumper holes). The rear of the car is +/- a 1/16" of my as-delivered - again, just elongating my holes.

What I'll take away from this is to share and talk to whomever is going to do your final bodywork & paint (if you're not doing it yourself). Also, find "A Guy" that specializes in your car. They know the faults. Pain in the azz for convenience - Yes/High. Anxiety level of leaving "your baby" 600+ miles away with an unknown - High. Cost of the work - High. Final result payoff - worth the trouble.

I've narrowed it down to "Mango Tango" or "Sinamon Stick", with his "Go To" favorite off-white pearl for the stripes.
Jeff's going to get a few ounces of each mixed up, shoot 'em, and send me some test samples.






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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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I am not the least surprised that he thought so much of your build quality. Everything else of yours has been near-perfect.

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Larry L.

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For the "GUY" it must be a "Labor of Love" just like the builder. (YOU)

Great outcomes are provided by people that really care, and love their work,

You also gave him an unmolested project, well crafted, with sins if manufacture consistent with other vehicles he has done.

He sees them in his sleep. thumbsup

Wise words John.beers

Karl



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I'm happy for you that Jeff is a man of his word and got right on your car.
Your perfectionism has, most likely, helped motivate him to excel also. When he has a vehicle that doesn't need a ton of baby sitting a poor build, he can make better use of his time and quicker progress. I believe the final product will be top notch.

My experience with a well renowned '66-67 Chevelle restoration expert wasn't the same. My car was more 1,000 miles away and didn't get touched for 4 months, after he agreed on drop off day to have it done in 2. I had no idea if the car or the many thousands of dollars of NOS parts I had left in his care even existed anymore. After 4 months of silence and excuses, I informed him I was coming to get it back and he, then, made a hurried, half hearted effort at painting the interior very poorly. This "guy" has awards for 100 point restorations and high dollar clients. Guess my car wasn't worthy of his time or having his name associated with it.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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John D


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As of late, Jeff is booked out into spring of 2022.
If you want him to "do" your car, he requests you call and get a timeslot when you open your 1st box after delivery. He goes upon the timeline that anyone with reasonable skills can screw one of these together in 12 - 14 months. If you're not ready when your slot comes up you go to the end of the line - no exceptions.

We were chatting yesterday, and he's started on the car behind mine - letting my body off-gas/cure/dry/whatever the fillers need for awhile. The car behind me was delivered "Runs Great"... a little tidbit of info was left out - Runs great, but it didn't MOVE under it's own power properly! The clutch was mis-adjusted and not disengaging. Jeff had the guy wrenching on it in his driveway, doing something that should have been done long ago during go-kart phase and trials!

Quite frankly I don't think he charges enough for the work and little "extras" he throws into each car he does. An example: We were talking about final color. I was relating that I need to get busy about my final choice(s), and getting some pics of cars to Design Consultant Sheryl... his reply:
"If you (and your consultant) would like for me to spray some actual samples let me know. Probably about $50 in material for 2 samples... and since you haven't been a pain in the ass I won't charge for labor".

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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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"and since you haven't been a pain in the ass I won't charge for labor". laughing

Gotta love it, you aren't calling every day asking " is it done yet ???"

Yeah, 1/2 PINT of paint is usually $25-30, plus whatever he needs to mix in. He's doing this very reasonably for you.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Mon 01/26 Update:
One of the things I'd asked of him is an occasional photo or two during the process(s) of body prep & paint. His response was "I'm not a photographer..." and this sentence kinda trailed off. I said "I don't want a step-by-step documentation, just a shot now & then would be great".

Anyway...
Final sanding is uncovering some "blowouts". What begins as a small speck (like the 1st photo) turns into a hole (like the 2nd). Better to find them now rather than after spending a day in the sun after paint!!

Jeff told me that FFR only makes the doors, hood, and trunk "in-house". The bodies are made at a local boat company using FFR molds. The bodies would NEVER pass muster as a finished boat, and I'm convinced that it's the mold quality (and partially the lay-up) that dictates the final outcome. The last two through the shop were Monday & Friday cars! laughing From what he's said I must have gotten a Wednesday car thumbsup... so far minimal "blowouts" and good seam alignment. FFR states very clearly in the build manual that the car will take an experienced person at least 40 hours of bodywork time. I guess this is why it's a $20,000 kit, not a $40,000 kit.

 



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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Got a few more pics from Jeff, and a neat little box in the mail.

No, there wasn't murder & mayhem at his shop, just a trip to the house after sanding red gel-coat! laughing

The body & doors are ready for high-build primer. (I believe he uses a product called "Slick Sand"). My car is the one that just got a bath, the next one in progress to the right, and his car as a parts shelf(!).

The little box was my paint test panels. He also included two whites for stripe examples (not shown). If Mother Nature cooperates and we get some good sunshine I'll get some good pics in natural light.



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

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Factory Five Mk4 Roadster Build - 40 Watt Garage
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That would be fun to just wash sanding dust off a car and not have it instantly rust.
Sample on left the Mango Tango ?

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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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On the Left = MangoTango
On the Right = Sinamon Stick

(both are Chrysler colors)

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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
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RE: Factory Five Mk4 Roadster Build - 40 Watt Garage - Bodywork Progress
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Well, to be compliant with the recent changes in our society, I had a 180 turn as to my color choice. I need my car to "identify" and be more compassionate with it's less powerful & less agile siblings.

InPrimer.jpg

razzrazzrazz This is actually the 1st coat of a new product from Evercoat (makers of Rage filler, Slick Sand, etc.). Jeff's wanted to try it out for some time now. It's a 4:1 mix with catalyst as opposed to 50:1 for Slick Sand. It also builds up to 8 mils per coat vs. 6.

More coverage per dollar. He says he likes spraying it, but the jury's out until he starts sanding.

(He posted this on FB and the FFR Forum with no explanation other than "I just sprayed this today... don't judge". It has generated a LOT of comments!)



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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I KNEW the first line was major BS....laughing

I hope it doesn't affect the color of the final paint.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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1970 Chevelle SS 396 M20

1967 Camaro SS/RS 350 M20
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Looks like a new neutral Jellybean color. Getting close JD.

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I see you've added a hood scoop!
I agree with that decision. thumbsup



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Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN

69 Malibu Pro-Touring stroker LS1-383/T56 - 69 SS396-325/3spd project
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Yea... As a "427" replica it just doesn't work without a hole in the hood. If it was a "slab-side/early" 289 car then no scoop.

I'm kicking around a few ideas to use the air intake to feed the heater plenum. Kinda like cowl-induction to the carb, but not. It'd be nice to have some cool "ram-air" pushing through the ductwork, instead of pre-heated engine compartment fumes. The extra/blow-by would shove underhood hot air out the side louvers.


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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

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Update 02/05

The funny pink primer/surfacer is all blocked and sanded. It does a color change to gray during this... weird.

Blocked.jpg

 

I got outside this afternoon and shot some pics of the test panels. Sunlight/Shadow/Inbetween/whatever. The camera did some funky thing occasionally and the snow went blue, but they show what the colors do in varying light.

My choice is swaying to "Mango Tango". The "Sinamon Stick" just goes too red/brown in shadow for me.

Thoughts?



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John D. - St. Louis Park, MN.

1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5

2018 Factory Five MkIV Roadster build thread
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You ordering Blizzaks and chains for that thing?
headscratch

 

Did you order the "all Wheel Drive" option?

 

Sounds like you have a plan!

Karl

 



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Mango all the way. Agree, the Sinamon is just a little too dark.

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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

Lifetime member of the "Cars apart Club"

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1966 Chevelle SS 396 M20

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