Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

dashboard · 2K+ Club

2012-2013 A Body Winter............and into Spring Project

Derek69SS · Founding Member

RE: 2012-2013 A Body Winter Project

SteveS · Super Poster

Looks like a good start, I like the Caddy coil covers. Let me know if you need a hand with anything.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

I used NAPA product called Aluminum Brightener, nasty stuff by the way, a toothbrush and lots of elbow grease then painted it aluminum, cast aluminum, and cast iron. The exhaust manifolds that came off a 05 GTO where media blasted then painted with VHT High Temp Paint the same high temp paint I’ve had such good luck with on the El Camino and the Buick’s V6 exhaust manifolds. The heat shields where cleaned and polished with a metal cleaner.

Here’s a higher resolution picture of before and after.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Back at it, one bite at a time, swapped out the oil pan, splash tray, and installed the new oil pick up tube. Dropped the original fuel tank for Macco‘s work, we need to replace the body brace’s mount behind the wheels on both sides. Other than that, I’m very pleased with the overall condition of the underside of the trunk sheet metal and frame.

I removed the block heater and installed the correct plug, (tks B) this plug became a big deal for a couple of reasons. The block heater must be removed in order to install the engine mount adapters, these adapters allow for the use of the three-bolt GM engine mounts, once installed if the plug leaks the engine would need to be partially removed to fix any leak. The plug requires a 17mm allen socket, I did not have one so I had to order one from NAPA, (add one day delay).

The mount adapters allow for forward and aft movement of up two inches assisting in final engine positioning. The passenger side mount had a conflict with a boss cast on the side of the engine and would not adjust so after hours of trying different things I made the trip to NAPA for a different style mount. More delay, when it arrived it was worse than the first, I went back to the first mount to move on, this issue will need to be resolved before final installation.

Then it was time to move the engine from one stand to another, that actually went pretty well, it was a nice milestone to pass. Next, adapt radiator hoses, wiring harness installation with a place to temporary mount the PCU computer and fuel tank near the stand and a temporary exhaust with O2 sensors installed.

-- Edited by dashboard on Thursday 13th of December 2012 01:02:15 AM

SteveS · Super Poster

Looks like you're going to be ready to fire it before January. How did the oil pickup o-ring seat in the oil pump? Hopefully you, or Barbie, got lots of oil on it because it's common people get them in crooked, or knick them and have no oil pressure.

And I found her in pic 1, 8, and 10. Did I miss any others?

dashboard · 2K+ Club

I used petroleum jelly and thought the pickup seated well but now that you’ve mentioned it I’ll worry about it right up until the moment we start it. I think it’s in there ok, in fact I removed it once and there was no twisting or binding, there all GM parts (tks B) so it went together very nicely.

If the hoses, wiring, exhaust, fuel tank and whatever else I may have missed go together better than the stupid **&^ mounts adaptors it might be ready before the New Year.

I don’t understand how she gets into some of those pictures but I think 30% is a good number.

SteveS · Super Poster

Didn't mean to worry you, with your attention to detail and Barbie's small hands I'm sure the two of you got it installed correctly. I just remember reading a lot of post on LS1 tech about people having oil pressure issues from cut o-rings. Since your worrying about o-rings GM did use a couple of different o-rings based on the pick-up used. If your pan came as a kit you should be covered there too.

GM Oil Pick-Up Tube O-Ring (1st Design)

12557752

BLUE SEAL

Specifics:

* Oil Pick-Up Tube O-Ring ea.

* Chevy/GMC Pick-Up (1999-2000 LS V8) 1st design

* F-Body (1998-2002)

* Cadillac CTS-V (2004-2007)

* Corvette (1997-2008)

* Thickness = 3.55mm (0.140")

ID = 23.60mm (0.930")

GM Oil Pick-Up Tube O-Ring (2nd Design)

12584922

RED SEAL

Specifics:

* Oil Pick-Up Tube O-Ring ea.

* Chevy/GMC Pick-Up (1999-2000 LS V8 engines with 2nd design pick-up tube)

* Trailblazer (2003-2008 With LS V8 engine)

* Hummer H2 (2003-2008)

* Hummer H3 (2008 With LS V8 engine)

* Chevy/GMC Pick-Up (2001-2008 LS V8 engines)

* W- Body (2006-2008 With LS V8 engine - Impala, Lacrosse, Grand Prix)

* Thickness = 4.20mm (0.165")

ID = 20.69mm (0.815")

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Great, I can't remember the color now I'm going to lose some sleep.

Today is going to be body work research day, off to Maaco to see if the replacement panels I received are ok or if I need to order a different kit. I found a 12 piece trunk kit on eBay for just a little more thanwhat I paid for these two small panels from OPG, I may order the 12 piece kit use four parts of it and sell the rest. Then I am going to dry fit the new fuel tank just to make sure there are no surprises there.

I just checked my work schedule and realized tomorrow is an off day, three day weekend, and another storm is inbound.

67ss · 1K+ Club

Sweet looks like everything bolted into the stand OK and you were able to adjust the heights to line it up with the radiator pretty well.

bowtie · Secretary

He bought a pan kit with stuff included.

Lost in the 60s · President

67ss wrote:
Sweet looks like everything bolted into the stand OK and you were able to adjust the heights to line it up with the radiator pretty well.

Good thing it has lots of room underneath, because if I know MR. Worry, it will be coming back off before the engine ever turns over......Steve has him steppin' and fetchin' now...

SteveS · Super Poster

Sorry, didn't mean to make you paranoid, I'm sure all is well. Carry on...

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Tank install. The new and original tanks when set side by side match up well, all the bends and dimples are identical the only difference is, the new tank is .375 to .50 thicker and the sending unit and pump are mounted on top of the tank vs. the fwd side. Great it will hold more fuel; unfortunately that additional thickness is just enough to create a conflict between the filler neck and the bumper, the tank will not seat all the way aft in the upper bracing.

I fiddled with it last night for a short time but was getting nowhere so I called it a night had a hot fudge sundae and went to bed. At 0400 this morning I woke up from a sound sleep and had the answer, I’ll try it again today.

I stopped by Maaco to discuss the trunk pan repair, I decided to order the trunk pan kit and send the OPG panels back, whoopee more shipping cost. However, I think it will improve the final result.

There was good news yesterday however, the clock I it got on eBay works great

Lost in the 60s · President

Hard to tell the tank issue from the pics but it appears the neck may be too low to clear the bumper ?? Use a piece of pipe to slip over the neck and tweak it up enough to align.

Is the rust issue in the trunk larger than the patch panel would cover ?? From my experience, it would be easier to section the patch in than replace the whole side panel. Not sure what you are hoping to gain...

dashboard · 2K+ Club

It is the filler neck being too low. As I swag it, I think it needs to go up at least 2” to provide the required clearance. That seems like a pretty large tweak to me; have you tweaked them that far? My concern is damaging the filler neck to tank joint.

The new panel is not the result of more rust than expected; it is simply a matter of providing the man doing the job the part he prefers to use.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Rather than bending it and risking damage to the soldered joint, I would cut it off and reinstall it with a short piece of hose connection like they do with modern cars to attach the metal filler to a plastic tank.

SteveS · Super Poster

Derek69SS wrote:
Rather than bending it and risking damage to the soldered joint, I would cut it off and reinstall it with a short piece of hose connection like they do with modern cars to attach the metal filler to a plastic tank.

That's how my Rick's tank is made, two piece neck with a 3" piece of Rubber hose and clamps connecting them. Makes it nice for adjustment.

67ss · 1K+ Club

Kevin I have about a 3 foot piece of filler neck hose that has a 2 inch inside diameter. I needed some fo rmy camaro and that was the smallest piece they would sell me. You are welcome to use some of it if it will work for you.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

I like Derrick’s approach better than tweaking and risk breaking the joint.

The dilemma is, I need to install the tank to determine the angle for the filler neck but I cannot install the tank because the filler neck is in the way. I do not want to guess at the filler neck height, take the tank somewhere have the filler neck cut and re-soldered only to discovered I guessed wrong and have to take it back and try again.

The other option is to put the car on a trailer and take it to a shop to have it done. I thought about calling the manufacture but quickly ruled that out having already talked to them once.

I would prefer to have the steel filler neck fit correctly, but the time and effort are reaching the point of diminishing returns. Chris I will take you up on your offer, I will not need the hose until after we run the engine as the tank will be out of the car when we run it.

The good news is, this is exactly why we test fit everything in advance, I need to keep reminding myself this is the stage I‘m at. I am trying to take each step required within the overall modification and work it thru as far as I can to discover any issues; so far, every step has issues.

I wanted to dry fit the tank before the car goes to Macco so I could start identifying prospective fuel line routing and filter/pressure regulator placement.

I’ll plan on using the two piece filler neck design and move on, continuing to look for other issues, I’m sure I’ll find more.

This really is 95% research and 5% wrenches. But the clock works!

Thanks guy’s

SShink · 3K+ Club

dashboard wrote:
I wanted to dry fit the tank before the car goes to Macco so I could start identifying prospective fuel line routing and filter/pressure regulator placement.

You could take off the rear bumper to remove the tank filler interference to temporarily mount the tank for routing and regulator placement mockup. Assuming you want to go to the work of removing the bumper...

John D · 2K+ Club

At least you missed the "fun" of adapting the '96 Roadie Wagon tank to my '65 neck. Wound up using some 2" muffler pipe & elbow, and a piece of hose. Grafted the unleaded top (with small hole & flapper) to my OEM fill pipe so I'm using the "correct" unleaded cap as well.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Stan, I thought about removing the bumper however, the rear frame cross brace or whatever it’s called is only 1/4” below the spot where the filler neck conflicts with the bumper. So I wouldn’t gain much and you know removing the bumper is dangerous because it would only put me one step closer to repainting the entire car.

Lost in the 60s · President

dashboard wrote:
It is the filler neck being too low. As I swag it, I think it needs to go up at least 2” to provide the required clearance. That seems like a pretty large tweak to me; have you tweaked them that far? My concern is damaging the filler neck to tank joint.

The new panel is not the result of more rust than expected; it is simply a matter of providing the man doing the job the part he prefers to use.

NO, 2" is not a "tweak". It's a major error.

Did you hold the tank against the floor and try to slide it rearward ? or tilt the front down, feed the filler neck into the opening while holding the tank in the rear position it needs to be in and then raise the front to the floor ? The angles in the neck may not allow it to be installed holding it flat against the floor. If it really is that ill-fitting, why not call the manufacturer ?? You said in another reply that you had already done that. Are they that uncaring/unresponsive to an issue with their product ?

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Did you get the tank from Quanta Products or from someone that sells imports?

http://www.gastanks.com/Special/products/190/

-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 17th of December 2012 08:41:35 AM

Enganeer · Mega Poster

Kevin,

You make a side profile template using carb board and tape of the gas tank with filler neck or you can make a template of the opening in bumper for the filler neck and bottom of the trunk. Gives you something better the just eye'in it.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Jim that is the same tank I have, Spectra Corporation in Canada makes it. Same part number, size, output, same, same. I ordered mine through O Riley’s for just over half the cost from Quanta.

O Riley’s is going to call them for me this afternoon. It’s not the end of the world if I have to cut the filler neck and splice in a hose, not my first choice but it would work. What I don’t want to do is get wrapped around the axle dealing with this tank. Without going into a long explanation the tank is only a small piece of the larger puzzle, a lot more needs to be done to complete the LS mod. As I said, I’m trying to move through each phase of the project to discover the issues, so I’m happy to have discovered the tank issue.

John, I did exactly that, I played with this thing for two days, plus, I milled 20” long tapered wooden shims in order to temporarily install the tank in order to get measurements.

SShink · 3K+ Club

dashboard wrote:
John, I did exactly that, I played with this thing for two days, plus, I milled 20” long tapered wooden shims in order to temporarily install the tank in order to get measurements.

Kevin, somehow I knew you would end up making something out of wood to mock up this project!

dashboard · 2K+ Club

I just finished making templates for the down pipes to be used on the test stand so we can install the o2 sensors and mufflers. Yep, I made them out of wood, #2 pine to be precise.

SShink · 3K+ Club

So, when is the LS engine start up going to happen? Sounds like you're getting close.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

dashboard wrote:
Jim that is the same tank I have, Spectra Corporation in Canada makes it. Same part number, size, output, same, same. I ordered mine through O Riley’s for just over half the cost from Quanta.

I once check on ordering some glasses from a LLC in Canada. Made in China, shipped to Canada, then shipped to MN. Are you sure this is the same tank as from Quanta? Where does Spectra Corp have their manufacturing plants? Canada, Canada and China, or just China. Kind of like Red Wing Shoe Corp of Red Wing, MN , most all boots or shoes are made in China. I am assuming all manufactures use the same part # like GM-37J

Chris R · 2K+ Club

When I bought my Spectra tank. It was made in Canada. Not overseas.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

So, when is the LS engine start up going to happen? Sounds like you're getting close.

Getting closer Stan; waiting on some oil pressure fittings and electrical items. Still on track for early January I think. Built up the fuel tank tonight.

I once check on ordering some glasses from a LLC in Canada. Made in China, shipped to Canada, then shipped to MN. Are you sure this is the same tank as from Quanta? Where does Spectra Corp have their manufacturing plants? Canada, Canada and China, or just China. Kind of like Red Wing Shoe Corp of Red Wing, MN , most all boots or shoes are made in China. I am assuming all manufactures use the same part # like GM-37J

Not sure how to answer your question Jim, this tank was made in Canada, lots of company’s sell Spectra products Summit, NAPA, O Riley’s, JEGS and others. I’m not familiar with Quanta, but it sure looks to me like they are selling Spectra products. Is Quanta a manufacture or a distributor?

jim larson · 2K+ Club

dashboard wrote:

Not sure how to answer your question Jim, this tank was made in Canada, lots of company’s sell Spectra products Summit, NAPA, O Riley’s, JEGS and others. I’m not familiar with Quanta, but it sure looks to me like they are selling Spectra products. Is Quanta a manufacture or a distributor?

Just a general comment regarding parts. Just because the Company was formed in Canada in the 80's, does not mean all their manufacturing is done in Canada. In reading the company profile it appears that some of the manufacturing process is done is Canada. And just because a sumitt salesman say they are made in Canada would not satisfy me that they are made in Canada.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Hey, where's the updates?

I heard "rumors" that the engine was running on the stand, but not without a few stolen parts from a nearby truck...

dashboard · 2K+ Club

I can substantiate that rumor. On Saturday, Chris and Steve stopped over and we fired it up. It was a very successful day, for an engine that last September was sitting in a salvage yard it was almost flawless. Many new parts where installed including a completely new wiring harness, computer, relays and several new sensors. We did loose throttle input and while troubleshooting the system we installed the TAC in Stan’s truck where it operated normally.

After checking for fuel, coolant and oil leaks, we did one quick burp and then Angie turned the key for the first start. It is her car and she is ready to install the motor.

I must say the throttle by wire is quick, Stan found out how quick when one little bump brought it to five-grand in a flash

I cannot thank Chris and Steve enough they are very knowledgeable, skilled and talented plus traveled quit a distance to help me out. Gosh, I like this club!

Next week the front bench seat goes to the upholstery shop for new padding and a week after that the car will be on its way to Maaco.

So again, thanks to Chris, Steve, and Stan I would not have gotten this far without your help. I’ll let the pictures do the talking.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Call it project creep or going over budget, either way I am blaming Stan. The bumpers have been delivered to Keystone in Minneapolis and Monday they will be on their way to Brainerd. By the way Keystone gave me a 10% discount when I mentioned NCC.

Seems a shame to put the new bumpers on a car with old paint. I’ll know about the future plan once the car gets to Maaco.

OscarZ · Mega Poster

Does that mean a possible color change is in order or would it be a new coat of the same color?

Lost in the 60s · President

dashboard wrote:
Call it project creep or going over budget, either way I am blaming Stan. The bumpers have been delivered to Keystone in Minneapolis and Monday they will be on their way to Brainerd. By the way Keystone gave me a 10% discount when I mentioned NCC.
Seems a shame to put the new bumpers on a car with old paint. I’ll know about the future plan once the car gets to Maaco.

May as well budget for the paint now, cause you KNOW that's what you want....

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Kevin. What software program is that you guys are using for the tune? I may have missed that detail.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Lost in the 60s wrote:
May as well budget for the paint now, cause you KNOW that's what you want....

I'm starting to think you may be a bad influence on the rest of us...

Lost in the 60s · President

Derek69SS wrote:
Lost in the 60s wrote:
May as well budget for the paint now, cause you KNOW that's what you want....
I'm starting to think you may be a bad influence on the rest of us...

I'm just a "realist"...

My wife agrees with YOU though. She calls me a bad influence all the time....

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Mike, we have thought of going with a different color, just cannot find one we think would look better than the drab yellow (bamboo cream, code Y). The colors available in 65 where very basic colors, yellow would have been the departure from the ‘norm’ in 1965.

Changing colors would increase the cost of paint, require disassembly and take longer. My first car, a 1968 Camaro (it was new) was the same color; Chevrolet called it butternut yellow, same paint code (Y).

Mitch, the lesson I have learned here is, do not have a budget.

Chris, I only know the tune program as HP Tuner, I do not know what version it is; perhaps Steve will chime in and clarify it; I only know it’s very cool.

Derek, influence perhaps, but it is not as if I’m dragging you into a house of ill repute and forcing you to consume evil sprits; we could try that, might be cheaper!

SteveS · Super Poster

dashboard wrote:

Chris, I only know the tune program as HP Tuner, I do not know what version it is; perhaps Steve will chime in and clarify it; I only know it’s very cool.

I have HP tuners, that is what we had on the lap top. Chris P had a Tech2 Scanner he used for troubleshooting.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

I always wanted a TechII. They are pretty nice to have around for stuff like that.

Kevin, what about evening orchid for a color? Its a very nice 65 color actually.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Chris, I do like that color I just do not think it would look good on this car. Nevertheless the owner has made her decision, the car will remain yellow.　

I spent today making repair patches for the cars grill; the grills are not repo’ed I can‘t just dial 1-800 and order one. These grills are made of cast aluminum then chromed, they are known for cracking in the vertical supports.

The patches will overlap seven existing cracks and other weak spots. They will be set in epoxy making a sort of sandwich type repair then sanded and painted. Once complete the repairs should not be noticeable.

In the last picture, the patches are installed but not yet set in epoxy, JB Weld and lots of clamps here we go.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Some JB Weld a couple of hours and about 50 clamps later all but two patches are installed. Tomorrow when the claps come off I can install the last two patches and see how it looks from the front.

Someone asked how I cut the patches. I made a fixture to hold my jigsaw installed some zip strips to hold the shop vac and used it for some of the cuts. Yes John, there just needs to be some woodworking involved.

Jon H · 1K+ Club

Sure are glad you are reitred with nothing but time on your hands.

Lost in the 60s · President

That is so colorful, I would move the clamps to the outside and leave them on for the summer. It would attract a LOT of attention....

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Jon, I estimate at least three more days work before the grill is done. Lots of sanding, very detailed sanding with a Dermel tool, think like Dentistry school 101.

Then tape and paint the non-chrome front face Cast Aluminum, then tape and paint parts of the back and vertical supports flat black.

If I could find a used grill, I would like to paint it, flat black like a Chevelle just to see what it would look like with the grill blacked out.

Yes, as you know this retirement gig is ok.

Mitch, I love those colorful little clamps, I use them a lot. I bought a tube of 100 on sale at Northern Tool. Next time I am there, I will pick up a tube for you; you could use them to put playing cards on your Harley’s wheels.