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Post Info TOPIC: GM Cousin 5 speed Snowball swap


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The forum needs some shock therapy these days...so thought I'd post a few things on the 442 Tremec TKO600 swap project even thought it's not a Chevelle, but a close cousin and we're getting other posts on non-Chevelle projects these days.  razz

Hank and I talked each other into the Tremec TKO600 5 speed swap, so I've ordered mine but went on the monthly payment plan.  They have an option to make 10 payments which I've made a few but will likely pay it off this month so that I can get it and start mocking some things up.  Silver Sport Transmission has been extremely friendly and easy to work with!

The engine is hemorrhaging oil from the oil pan gasket so 'might as well' pull the engine and trans together and reseal the engine.  That's happened and I've started to dig into the engine to understand it's health.  Mostly good news so far:

Cold cranking compression was all within 10% of each cylinder with each other

It's a 'period correct' 400 c.i. engine that isn't numbers matching, so appears to be a service or dealer installed engine based on the stampings on it and the Olds guys that are guiding me on their forum. Factory specs are 350HP with 440 ft. lbs of torque.

The heads do have ARP bolts installed, so someone has been into the engine.  That gives me piece of mind burning unleaded gas as I'm assuming the seals have been replaced as well.  The connecting rods have also been stamped with identifiers to keep them straight for reassembly, so it's had a rebuild at some time.

Time to start taking parts over to It's A Blast and get them sandblasted so that I can start cleaning up the engine.

Here's a few pics to enjoy during the cold Jan. days. 

 

 

 



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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Your right Stan the site needs a shot of adrenaline. Bruce and Karl have been carrying the load with their post, the your project brightens it up a bit. Your going to love the five speed; I really enjoyed the five speed in my Elky. It was like bringing a car out of the dark ages into the light.
Next for you.....red inner fenders, air induction and AC, you can be ready to drive by a Minnesota spring.

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Rear main seal....usually the source of most oil leaks that appear coming from the pan.

They were rope originally. Hope it was updated to lip. Can you get any angle to see it without pulling the cap ?

I see you are blocking the car up on the skates. I did that too, but went up a few stories for more room underneath. The bottom boards are secured to the skates by deck screws and then all levels are screwed down to the lower one. I can push the car around with it on these. I stepped the upper layers out enough for 10" wide tires too.

DSCN0228.JPGDSC03900.JPG



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Thanks for the update on the Old's Stan, will help me remember what your current car is!
We may want to check the odds how far down the "while I'm at it" rabbit hole you may go.
No point in offering a warning, as you have traveled that road more than mostrolleyes



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Bruce L. - Lakeville MN

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I got the cam cover plug off the back of the engine and found some numbers on the back of the cam, but they don't come up in any searches.

It has 814840 stamped in it so I tried that combo along with using '3's in place of the 8's and nothing comes up.

There's also a faint stamping of '039' but I'm guessing that's a date code as the engine was rebuilt around the 2009 era according to the seller of the car.

The scratches in the back of the cam pic were caused by me getting the plug off as it didn't want to cooperate.

Anyway, a gold star to anyone that can help me figure out who the mfg. and specs are for this cam!  beers



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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No clue on the cam, but the oil galley plug appears to have a streak  leading down from it, like it has been leaking. As oily as that block is, there is something besides the pan gasket causing all that oil to fly around. I would remove both of the galley plugs, thoroughly clean and reseal them, as long as you are this far in.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Lost in the 60s wrote:

No clue on the cam, but the oil galley plug appears to have a streak  leading down from it, like it has been leaking. As oily as that block is, there is something besides the pan gasket causing all that oil to fly around. I would remove both of the galley plugs, thoroughly clean and reseal them, as long as you are this far in.


The seller told me this engine was rebuilt 10 years ago and has about 7000 miles on it, so it's been driven and sat a lot.  It looks like pretty much every seal was leaking somewhere.  You can see in the pics there's oil everywhere, so some new seals and the new oil pan that the seller gave me should get things back under control.

 



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SShink wrote:

I got the cam cover plug off the back of the engine and found some numbers on the back of the cam, but they don't come up in any searches.

It has 814840 stamped in it so I tried that combo along with using '3's in place of the 8's and nothing comes up.

There's also a faint stamping of '039' but I'm guessing that's a date code as the engine was rebuilt around the 2009 era according to the seller of the car.

The scratches in the back of the cam pic were caused by me getting the plug off as it didn't want to cooperate.

Anyway, a gold star to anyone that can help me figure out who the mfg. and specs are for this cam!  beers


 There were a couple of guys  on the TC forum that helped me identify my cam.  Are you on that site?  

The engine in the new chevelle I bought makes yours look like it just came out of the wash.



-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 13th of January 2020 01:02:10 PM

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jim larson wrote:


 There were a couple of guys  on the TC forum that helped me identify my cam.  Are you on that site?  

The engine in the new chevelle I bought makes yours look like it just came out of the wash.


-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 13th of January 2020 01:02:10 PM


I haven't been on TC for awhile but it's worth a shot.  Since it's an Olds cam I may give that a try on their forum.

Good to know it's not as dirty as I think it is.  It's all relative I guess.   



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I would replace the oil pressure hose fitting in pic #5 with a 90 and point it at about 1 o'clock. That will allow the braided hose to aim right up over the intake without the big loop first.

Pic #4 seems to indicate the rear seal may not be a problem. The flywheel flange and the block appear dry in that area. Could be the intake was leaking at the flat block joint with the silicone and getting in the bellhousing. I'd still pull the galley plugs while they're accessible and re-seal them, just in case...dunno Something has been allowing oil into the bell and getting thrown around with the wind.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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SShink wrote:
jim larson wrote:


 There were a couple of guys  on the TC forum that helped me identify my cam.  Are you on that site?  

The engine in the new chevelle I bought makes yours look like it just came out of the wash.


-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 13th of January 2020 01:02:10 PM


I haven't been on TC for awhile but it's worth a shot.  Since it's an Olds cam I may give that a try on their forum.

Good to know it's not as dirty as I think it is.  It's all relative I guess.   


 

 It may be that the only way to know for sure what cam you have is get out the dial indicator and degree wheel and measure.

How does the cam look? Have you looked for warn/flat lobs? I would pull the lifters one at a time to inspect, look at the lifters also. Be sure to keep rocker, pushrod, and lifter in the same location.



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Bobs_Place wrote:
SShink wrote:
jim larson wrote:


 There were a couple of guys  on the TC forum that helped me identify my cam.  Are you on that site?  

The engine in the new chevelle I bought makes yours look like it just came out of the wash.


-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 13th of January 2020 01:02:10 PM


I haven't been on TC for awhile but it's worth a shot.  Since it's an Olds cam I may give that a try on their forum.

Good to know it's not as dirty as I think it is.  It's all relative I guess.   


 

 It may be that the only way to know for sure what cam you have is get out the dial indicator and degree wheel and measure.

How does the cam look? Have you looked for warn/flat lobs? I would pull the lifters one at a time to inspect, look at the lifters also. Be sure to keep rocker, pushrod, and lifter in the same location.


I talked to the guy I bought the car from and he had some background on the engine that the owner before him had built.  It was basically a stock rebuild that was done for reliability, good vacuum, and good street manners which is fine with me.  He thought it was a Crane cam which the part number seems close, but I called Crane and they couldn't identify it.

You're right that it will come down to putting a dial indicator on and seeing if I can measure the intake/exhaust lift that way.  I'm not going to pull the rest of the valve train since it ran good and trying to avoid that snowball even though it's only removing a few more bolts, right? clonkThe Stan of a few years ago would have it torn down at this point and buying new parts for it.  I guess I'm mellowing out now... laughing

 



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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Dropped the headers and intake manifold off at Race Coatings in Forest Lake for polished ceramic on the headers and an aluminized ceramic on the intake manifold.  Thanks Mitch for the referral.  Clinton was great to work with, and while pretty young knows his stuff.  He even grabbed a wrench and took off the intake bungs and stuff I still had on it with no complaints at all.  He also noticed on the driver's side header it had gotten above 1400 degrees as it was darker on the two end tubes, probably due to retarded timing during the cam break in.

I appreciate the 'Mitch Discount' too as total bill will be just under $400 for both the headers and intake manifold.  beers  Well worth the price to not have to change up any of the exhaust with new potentially different length headers.

Oh, we did find the missing upper driver's side control arm bolt wedged in the tubes at the collector which explains the melted control arm bushing on the headers.  All will be replaced when I install QA1 adjustable height coil overs after the engine/trans are back in.

Should have everything back in a couple of weeks, so will post the 'after' pics. 



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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How much just to coat the headers? With the Mitch Discount?

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Dave Seitz wrote:

How much just to coat the headers? With the Mitch Discount?


 $200-250, depending on size and condition. Price of product is continually climbing and the days of $150 for ceramic coating are long gone...angry



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Lost in the 60s wrote:
Dave Seitz wrote:

How much just to coat the headers? With the Mitch Discount?


 $200-250, depending on size and condition. Price of product is continually climbing and the days of $150 for ceramic coating are long gone...angry


$260 for just the headers and $120 for the intake manifold.



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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Parts are starting to ship in, and should have the TKO600 trans and install kit later this week!  nana

I picked up the headers from Race Coatings and they look great.  There's some pitting on the bottoms from a little bit of rust, otherwise they look like new.

I stopped by the Carb Shop with my Holley 750 cfm carb and talked about whether to rebuild it, sell it, or buy something new.  We landed on rebuilding it since it's an older Holley with the better castings so just needed a rebuild to ethanol friendly parts and they added some used electric choke parts to it to keep the conversion cost down since it was a manual choke carb.  They did find a bad accelerator pump so that should help the off the line stumble it had.  I also dropped off my disty to have them spin it up and make adjustments since they only charge $50 for the service.

Hope to have the engine painted up by this weekend and resealed.  Making some progress.

 



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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Looks like you are on track to escape the CAC club well ahead of the warm weather! Keep the updates coming.

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Just got the tracking info and Silver Sport is such a good seller that they send pics of the shipment before being picked up by FedEx with a note to comment on any damage upon receipt.



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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That is pretty nice that they send you the pictures to see how it left their place.

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BLyke wrote:

That is pretty nice that they send you the pictures to see how it left their place.


 They do that to protect themselves against a rejected damage claim from the shipper. They KNOW how badly, heavy cartons get thrown around.

I've done that myself, especially when I shipped the entire drive train from the '54 to California. I had 20 pics of it as I strapped pieces on the pallet and as it was dropped off at the freight forwarding terminal, in case they tried to dodge any damage claim.

 I, also sent them to the recipient, so he could compare what it looked like when it got there.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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BLyke wrote:

That is pretty nice that they send you the pictures to see how it left their place.


Mitch is spot on since the cost of this trans and install kit is more than I paid for the last crate engine, so they want to make sure it arrives o.k.!!!   clonk



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And so it begins...



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Good to see it arrived safely. Everything I've read about SST, is they pack their product very well against damage.
Did you get a pressure plate from them to go with the disc ?

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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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New project setback.  Found a massive crack on the bellhousing near the starter feature in the casting along with the fork hasn't been wearing evenly due to a bent throwout bearing we found during disassembly.

I was feeling a pretty strong trans vibration up around 3000 rpm last Fall, and I'm guessing these are all related.

Time to order a new BOP bellhousing and fork.  banghead



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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Despite the bellhousing and fork discovery, I did make some progress on getting the engine back together.



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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Lost in the 60s wrote:

Good to see it arrived safely. Everything I've read about SST, is they pack their product very well against damage.
Did you get a pressure plate from them to go with the disc ?


Yes, I bought the SST pressure plate and clutch kit from them as a set. 



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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SShink wrote:

Despite the bellhousing and fork discovery, I did make some progress on getting the engine back together.


 Looking good Stan!



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Haven't posted on this for awhile since I've been working on it and was gone for a week of vacation in a warm place before the 'Vid 19' hit.  

She's on ships power again after the startup tonight, the rear wheels turn when shifting with the new trans, and now it's time to put the interior back together, the hood on, and hopefully go for a drive on Sunday.  gearbanger (just noticed our emoticon needs a 5 speed burnout not a 4 speed, LOL)

Thanks to those that gave me a hand.  beers

Here's a couple of videos I took tonight.  Other than some leaking collector gaskets, a leaking thermo housing, and changing out the blue plug wires it's pretty much done.

 

 

 



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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Looking good Stan, nice work! thumbsup



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Very nice Stan, looking forward to seeing the car.

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Looks Good!!  thumbsup

When's the first      "Test Beat" gearbanger       we need the results



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Bobs_Place wrote:

Looks Good!!  thumbsup

When's the first      "Test Beat" gearbanger       we need the results


Thanks Bob.

 

I need to put 250 miles on it with 'normal' driving for the clutch to seat then change the trans fluid at 500 miles before any beatings will begin.  deadhorse 



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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Looks great! Can't wait to see you and it on the road. I will ping you when the Chevelle is on the road. We can break the trannies in together.



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hkgmillette wrote:

Looks great! Can't wait to see you and it on the road. I will ping you when the Chevelle is on the road. We can break the trannies together.


 Fixed that for ya.

That should work really well. You KNOW you both will be tempted to compete "just a little" and before you know it, you'll be hammering gears...laughing



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Lost in the 60s wrote:
hkgmillette wrote:

Looks great! Can't wait to see you and it on the road. I will ping you when the Chevelle is on the road. We can break the trannies together.


 Fixed that for ya.

That should work really well. You KNOW you both will be tempted to compete "just a little" and before you know it, you'll be hammering gears...laughing


Yep, big block Chevy vs. big block Olds!   engarde



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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You guy won't break those gearboxes...

Curious, is a mfg. recommendation to change the fluid in the box after 500?
My box in the roadster is direct from Tremec (via a dealer), and there was no notation/warnings/service "must-do" for changing the fluid. I've got 2700+ on my gearbox now, and all's it does is get better by the mile.

('Cause I'm a cheapazz/tightwad anyway, and thinking that 99% of every daily out there goes its ENTIRE LIFE with the OEM "cherry juice"...)

What was your fill numbers? If I recall correctly mine took the better part of 3-1/2 quarts.

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The Legend trans I got had a 500 mile break in. After that the interval is every 30,000.



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I think mine took just over 2.5 quarts.

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John D wrote:

You guy won't break those gearboxes...

Curious, is a mfg. recommendation to change the fluid in the box after 500?
My box in the roadster is direct from Tremec (via a dealer), and there was no notation/warnings/service "must-do" for changing the fluid. I've got 2700+ on my gearbox now, and all's it does is get better by the mile.

('Cause I'm a cheapazz/tightwad anyway, and thinking that 99% of every daily out there goes its ENTIRE LIFE with the OEM "cherry juice"...)

What was your fill numbers? If I recall correctly mine took the better part of 3-1/2 quarts.


 The instructions for mine say "Fill to 2 quarts, 20 oz. or until fluid comes out of the fill hole when the vehicle is level."  Mine took almost all 3 quarts.

For servicing, "...recommends to replace the fluid after 500-1000 miles of normal driving, and then every 30,000 miles thereafter."



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Put about 50 miles on it yesterday, so here's some final wrap up pics.  I just need to swap out the blue plug wires for the black ones I need to put together.

1600 rpm at 55 mph and 2000 at 70 mph with plenty of power off the line.  Great combo so far!






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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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Glad to see your all set!

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Well done Stan. All the Velle guys will be drooling over your engine compartment. Just some W-30 air ducting and your set. Could the W-30 package be had with A/C?

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Kevin

Northwestern Ohio

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