Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

SShink · 3K+ Club

New heartbeat for the Malibu-383 Project

John D · 2K+ Club

You'll love it. Blackie had a 383 in him for awhile (pre-EFI) from a previous project... built when you said "It's a 383..." and the reply would be "A CHRYSLER MOTOR???".

Decent mileage, great low-end torque, and (depending on cam & heads) really nice between 2000 & 5500.

gearlube · Active Member

Congrats Stan!! Welcome to the 383 club. Hope to cruise with ya this spring. All my parts arrive next week for my upgrades.

Larry Lucast · Active Member

Gary knows how to build horsepower. I have had him do the heads and intake on a couple of engines I was building.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Thanks guys.

Talked to Gary today and the 4 bolt main 1 piece rear main seal block is already in being machined, so things are under way.

I talked to him a little more about the cam selection, and here's what he gave me:

Slightly larger than a Comp Cams 280 but smaller than a 292
At 0.050 lift it has .234 on the Intake and .244 on the Exhaust side which equates to .480/.508 if I remember right
Low end rpm power starts at 1800, which will work well with my 2200 stall converter
Good idle quality with good scavenging through an exhaust system (not straight headers), but lumpy sound like a 280 cam
He uses Delphi lifters with a hardened face, which he has used for years and best bang for the buck in his opinion

I had a 280 cam in the 396 that was in the white '71 Chevelle years ago, and really liked it, so I think I'll be happy with this one that should be even better.

Lost in the 60s · President

The 1 piece main block isn't a roller cam ? I thought that happen at the same time...

SShink · 3K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
The 1 piece main block isn't a roller cam ? I thought that happen at the same time...

From my research, some TBI version 1 piece seal blocks were hydraulic cam's, not roller cams. Chris P. will probably know more.

Now that I say that, I'm wondering if he'll have to use center bolt Vortec style heads...so I'll be calling him today to get more details. We didn't go over all that when I talked to him before, and his build breakdown list doesn't get into that level of detail. When we talked about the heads, he told me they'd be iron 72cc heads that are ported and polished but didn't say if they are vortec heads.

67ss · 1K+ Club

Not all 1 piece blocks are roller like Stan said. But it would be interesting to find out if the block he is using is capable or not. If it is I would sure look into upgrading cams if possible.

No you do not have to use Vortec heads on 1 piece blocks any small block head will bolt on, only exception to that is the odd ball LT1 motor like John has in Blackie. If they are 72 CC heads they are going to most likely be a later model head that they port out with new valve I would imagine.

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

Gary built a 383 for me and came off the dyno at R&R with 450hp 460tq. That has Dart PRO1 Heads and Holley Stealth Ram.
Ron at the dyno couldn't get over throttle response with the Stealth Ram setup. I had Gary port Iron Eagle heads but went with
the Aluminum heads.The guy who bought the iron heads was saying I screwed him over he wanted a 375 hp engine. Ron told him
I did screw him he was at 412HP, guy shut up after that. Yes get the DYNO PKG on the engine so you know it is ready to go with
no tuning needed.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Dave Seitz wrote:
Gary built a 383 for me and came off the dyno at R&R with 450hp 460tq. That has Dart PRO1 Heads and Holley Stealth Ram.
Ron at the dyno couldn't get over throttle response with the Stealth Ram setup. I had Gary port Iron Eagle heads but went with
the Aluminum heads.The guy who bought the iron heads was saying I screwed him over he wanted a 375 hp engine. Ron told him
I did screw him he was at 412HP, guy shut up after that. Yes get the DYNO PKG on the engine so you know it is ready to go with
no tuning needed.

Good to hear Dave.

I'll be happy with 400-425 HP/425-450 TQ with tweaked stock iron heads. Any more than that and I have concerns about breaking the 200R4 behind it. Gary said the 200R4 is stronger than most people think, but hopefully I don't prove him wrong. The trans is from an '85 Grand National that was rebuilt last year, beefed up slightly, and has about 2000 miles on it, so will hopefully be o.k.

Larry Lucast · Active Member

That is a pretty stout cam. It should have a really nice sounding idle. Gary knows how to adjust cam timing, etc, to maximize low end. We used to see quite a few Grand Nationals at the drag strip making a lot of power. I don't remember any trans problems. And the 200 is the same size as the earlier autos, so you shouldn't need to cut your driveshaft. You will have to move your trans cross-member back a few inches, which just involves drilling new holes in the frame.

If I remember right, there are three bosses with tapped holes down the middle of the valley for the "spider" for roller lifters, and not for flat-tappet. And I agree with Chris; a 350 is a 350, so you can bolt on any heads except '90s LT1s.

67ss · 1K+ Club

Stan were you able to find out if the motor was a roller block or not?

SShink · 3K+ Club

67ss wrote:
Stan were you able to find out if the motor was a roller block or not?

I haven't asked. I'm afraid of the snowball effect. From what I know, a roller cam/lifter kit is about $500-600 which blows my budget. Plus the hardened geared distributor adds another cost.

That 350 from Year One was probably the best bang for the buck with a roller cam and 1 piece seal block, but I'm stuck on giving the 383 a try.

Larry Lucast · Active Member

If your block is set for roller lifters, you can find used lifters pretty cheap, then the cam is not much more expensive. Since roller lifters don't wear into the shape of the cam, there is no problem re-using them.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Larry Lucast wrote:
If your block is set for roller lifters, you can find used lifters pretty cheap, then the cam is not much more expensive. Since roller lifters don't wear into the shape of the cam, there is no problem re-using them.

Just talked to Gary, and he's not a fan of hydraulic roller cam setups. He said the lifters are too heavy and limit RPM and HP. He did say they will lighten the wallet though, but it won't make enough difference to go faster. Larry I'm sure you can appreciate his humor.

The block is almost finished at the machinist, and the Eagle 383 kit has arrived and he's weighed all the connecting rods and all is good. The heads are running behind, so hopefully he will have it all together by the 30th for dyno day at R & R Performance! I asked him to deliver the engine to R & R since he's over there quite often, so hoping that will help with the deadline.

Lost in the 60s · President

Maybe the aftermarket rollers are heavy when converting a non-roller block, but the factory parts are made to run up to 6500 rpm. A healthy street build doesn't need to exceed that rpm.

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

Had that same discussion, the factory rollers work but the after market have issues.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Dyno is still on schedule for Friday morning.

It's time for guess the HP/Torque game! What's your HP/TQ guess?

The Details:

Gen 1 SBC (1 Piece Seal version)

72cc Chevy iron heads

Mystery cam slightly larger than a Comp Cams 280 but smaller than a 292

Here's the rest but with the Eagle 383 kit:

TRW dome-top pistons
Speed-Pro moly rings
ARP or SPS rod bolts
Clevite bearings
Melling HV oil pump
Crane cam & lifters
Dyna-Gear double-roller
Holley 750 vac or Quick Fuel
New HEI distributor
NGK spark plugs
Edelbrock Performer RPM
Valve locks/PC seals
Fel Pro gasket set
Billet aluminum valve covers
Taylor/Accel/Moroso wires

Fresh bored block
Polished & radiused crank
Magnafluxed & reconditioned rods
Welded oil pickup
Hardened exhaust seats
Reconditioned valve guides
Heads resurfaced
3-angle valve job
Cut for PC Seals
Cam bearings installed
Pocket-ported select castings
4-bolt block
Assembled & epoxy paint detailed
Oil & filter included
Joe Gibbs BR30

Larry Lucast · Active Member

I put that into my Desktop Dyno program. I assumed 9.0:1 compression, and used a generic 282 degree cam. It made 426 TQ, and 436 HP. Pretty respectable!

Stan dyno.jpg

SShink · 3K+ Club

Larry Lucast wrote:
I put that into my Desktop Dyno program. I assumed 9.0:1 compression, and used a generic 282 degree cam. It made 426 TQ, and 436 HP. Pretty respectable!

Wow, look at that torque curve starting at 2000 rpm with 400+ ft. lbs! I'd be happy with that.

The only thing that might sway it is the heads aren't camel back heads, but they will have the 'Gary touch' on them, so maybe they will flow as good.

So Larry's locked in at 436 HP/426 TQ.

67ss · 1K+ Club

I'll say 428hp/455tq

Chris S · Active Member

425hp/415tq is my guess.

I cant wait to see the true numbers!

OscarZ · Treasurer

427hp 454tq

SShink · 3K+ Club

Dyno is on! Talked to Gary, and he's taking it to R & R Performance in the a.m. to start the session at 8 a.m. Can't wait! I'll post updates on the numbers tomorrow.

In the meantime...the Chevelle Transplant Hospital is open:

And...shiny new parts are showing up from the brown truck.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Well...Round 1 was a small bit disappointing:

383 Peak HP

416 Peak TQ

They played with the timing and carb spacers, and that was all she had in it. Ron the dyno guy calculated it wasn't pulling enough air, which in his mind and Gary's means either the cam is not the right one out of the box, or the wrong one was installed since it's too mild for the heads/intake/carb. It did pull 15+ inches of vacuum, which makes me think it's the wrong one as well. The idle wasn't all that lopey either now that I think about it.

Anyway, Gary loaded it back into his van, and is going to check the cam and likely install a new or slightly bigger one and new lifters. So, have to wait until sometime either next week or the next before it's back together and re-dyno'd again.

Gary is standing behind it that it should do 400+ HP and 435-440 TQ, so he wants to make it right, which I appreciate.

Here's a video of one of the pulls, but not the biggest result:

Now to remain patient a little longer for Round 2...

Lost in the 60s · President

DANG, huh ??
What is this "patient" thing you speak of...

SShink · 3K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
DANG, huh ??
What is this "patient" thing you speak of...

Yeah, I think Gary was even more disappointed than me. The more I think about it, the more I think he put one of his 350/350 horse cams in it by mistake. The output for both HP and TQ was exactly what he told me the 350 HP version does. Ten years ago 1 HP/Cubic Inch was a good thing, but we've all gotten spoiled by higher numbers now. lol

Patience is running thin for sure with the delay and Mother Nature this morning. Woke up to 5" of snow and gusts up to 30 mph. I know it can happen this time of year, but it's been a longgggg winter and I think we're all ready for it to at least get into the 50's!!!!

Furnace quit working last night too, so not a good weekend so far. I'll start another post on that.

67ss · 1K+ Club

Made some progress yesterday. Old motor is ready to come out.

SShink · 3K+ Club

67ss wrote:
Made some progress yesterday. Old motor is ready to come out.

Thanks again Chris!

The furnace issues yesterday messed up my plans, so thanks for disconnecting everything, and leaving the final yanking moment for me to be involved. I"m sure the new owner of the 350 will be happy.

SShink · 3K+ Club

383 Round 2 Update

I've been working with Gary at Magnum since Mon., and he inspected the cam and lifters, and everything was perfectly assembled. The cam hadn't gone flat, and no 'extra' metal particles in the oil. I also discovered that he used the same cam he uses for his 350hp crate 350, and had expected more power due to the increased cubic inches, but it actually performed identical to the 350hp 350 other than a little more torque.

His plan was to put the same grind in (with new cam/lifters) and try the dyno again. I didn't like his idea since I don't think it would change anything, so now the snowball creep kicks in when I start talking to him about what will it take to hit 425hp/425tq? Well, he says 'I'll give the block a haircut and mill some off to raise the compression, then I'll bump the cam up to a .240/.240 split duration to keep the compression under control to run pump gas." So, I said o.k. for how much? And he replies $140 for the milling job. And you guys know the answer to that...go ahead I tell him, as long as it gets to the dyno by next Thursday afternoon. So that's now the master plan.

We did talk about the torque converter I have in the 200R4, and he thinks the 2400 stall should be o.k. with the electronic lockup and to give it a try, but might need to bump it up to 2800-3000. We'll give it a try and go from there.

He's been very patient with me on this, and wants to make me happy as a customer, which is old school and I really appreciate it.

HP/Torque guesses with this new combo?

67ss · 1K+ Club

405 HP/ 420 Torque

Enganeer · Mega Poster

What are the heads?

SShink · 3K+ Club

Enganeer wrote:
What are the heads?

Chevy iron 72cc heads that have had a 3 angle valve job, ported, and polished. Sorry, he didn't share the casting number with me.

gearlube · Active Member

I know exactly how you feel Stan. This summer I dyno’d at Summer Spectacular. I hit almost the same numbers you did. Considering when my engine was dyno’d when new it hit 500HP I knew something was quite wrong. I worked with Edelbrock and sent them my sheets. My engine shoots right up to that 385 number and then flat lines the entire torque curve! So I know the frustration your feeling when it should be higher. When I first bought my EFI I purchased a 49 PSI sump pump which was wrong as I should have gotten the 60 PSI. So my tune was starving my engine with the lack of pressure on fuel delivery at high RPM. I have since replaced my sump with a 60psi pump and upgraded all my tunes. I hope to regain so poop!!

I think you are making the right choice. What is sad though is that all these experienced engine builder are a dying breed. Someday there won’t be many left that can make these adjustments based on their years of hands on. Looking forward to some big numbers!, Also putting out the challenge to you for some 1/8th mile runs!!

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

Stan look at it this way you will know what you have when it goes in. Nothing worse then getting the privilege of pulling it back out to change something.

Enganeer · Mega Poster

Ive got a Comp XE294H cam and lifters if you want it to get nasty. Pulled it out of 400 and went roller.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Enganeer wrote:
Ive got a Comp XE294H cam and lifters if you want it to get nasty. Pulled it out of 400 and went roller.

Thanks John. He's not charging me for the cam change, so no worries there.

That 294H has longer duration at .250/.256 for sure.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Another step forward today thanks to the help of Chris S.! The old 350 is out and on the cherry picker for the new owner to pick up tomorrow.

It came out without any issues, and thanks to Chris' packing skills, I discovered an engine on a cradle, 2 sandbags, and an engine hoist can all fit in the back of a Chevy Colorado.

We were also able to confirm the shiny new headers are the same length as the old nasty ones. Now we'll see if there's any issues once they're on the engine in the car.

I also confirmed it's not the matching numbers engine to the car, which wasn't a surprise since it's been played with with the camel hump heads.

Now fingers crossed for the 383 to go back together this week and dyno Thursday afternoon.

SShink · 3K+ Club

67ss wrote:
405 HP/ 420 Torque

Chris P. is the winner!

Peak HP at 409 and Peak Torque at 428. Torque band is very flat and kicks in under 3500 rpm, so should be fun on the street. The dyno sheet I attached doesn't show the best low end torque, just the max.

Interesting that it gained about 16 ft. lbs. of torque with a 1" 4 hole spacer. It leaned it out and really liked it.

Now on to getting all the bits and pieces to get the engine accessories back on and into the car.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Out of the CAC!

She's running on ship's power, completed the maiden voyage of 20 miles back to the garage, and the only issue is a very small drip out of the dipstick tube hole on the block after a marathon weekend at Chris P.'s Chevelle Urgent Care facility.

I learned that it's better to not sell the old engine with all the goodies on it, as I had to make many parts orders and runs to O'Reilly's picking up misc. bits and pieces. We even raided Chris' on-site store for a few parts as well. That kept the completion from pushing into next weekend for sure. Thanks Chris P. And thanks to Chris S. for the shuttle service and hood removal/install along with Jon H.'s help on Sat.

She's running on a big pig 850 double pumper loaner carb since the Quick Fuel carb that came with the engine has a different throttle linkage setup than the Bowtie Overdrives TV Cable Made Easy kit I have for a Holley, so Magnum is replacing my Quick Fuel for a Holley later this week.

I'll have to record a video, but she cackles at idle and sounds awesome. Runs MUCH stronger for the little I've gotten into it, and an added bonus is even with low vacuum, the brakes work much better thanks to the 'new' to me brake booster Bryan F. had sitting around. The old drum booster wasn't doing anything. Front disc brake install is in the future, so it will only get better.

Now to put some miles on her!

SShink · 3K+ Club

Here's a quick video at idle:

Idle Video

Larry Lucast · Active Member

Sounds Great!

Enganeer · Mega Poster

Nice sounding loopy idle.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Here's a video in 'stereo' with both left and right exhaust. Disregard the vibrating metal sound you hear somewhat. The driver's side exhaust pipe decided to get friendly with the cross member, so I need to do a little tweaking.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Sounds great Stan. Quite the heartbeat!

OscarZ · Treasurer

Sounds good Stan!

SShink · 3K+ Club

Well, nothing like slapping on a new out of the box carb and fuel line (with leak challenges of course) and driving a 100 mile round trip maiden voyage. It ran good other than was idling pretty rough at stop lights, so I checked the timing when I got home and the distributor had moved enough that the initial timing was 8 degrees. So, between that and adjusting the idle mixture screws on the new carb, it idles better now.

I did find out I have oil dripping onto the passenger header and onto the ground at a pretty good rate, so now I need to get it back in the air and pull the starter to see where it's coming from. It was fine on the way down to Mitch's, but when I got home there was a lot of oil dripping down in the driveway. At first I thought it was from the dipstick tube going into the block, but I took a couple of checks off my mechanic card and gooped it up with probably too much RTV, so I'm guessing it's either coming from the topside under the valve cover or the back of the intake manifold. There's so much oil on the starter and header, I have to wipe things down first to figure out where it's coming from. It's not just a drip, it's quite a bit. Just seems to be when the rpm's are up also. It's always something, especially with new parts...

Lost in the 60s · President

Oil pressure line or sending unit on the back of the block ?

SShink · 3K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Oil pressure line or sending unit on the back of the block ?

I don't think it's coming from that high on the engine, but will take a look. I put a sending unit in the back of the block, but thought it was tight, so will check. Thanks.

I spent all day yesterday hanging cabinets, unpacking, and organizing the garage, so put the oil investigation on hold until I'm in the right mood to put the car up on blocks and see what's going on underneath.

Larry Lucast · Active Member

I have an Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap. My oil pressure sender hit the manifold just before it got tight enough. I bought an extender and it solved the problem. I bought two, just in case, so you are welcome to the other if you need it.