Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

bowtie · Secretary

Garage heater inop

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Is it just a basic 2-wire "heat-only" T-stat?

Can you test it by jumping the wires somewhere closer to the furnace?

bowtie · Secretary

The thermostat I have is the one shows under "Simple 2 wire".

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Thermostat

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Pull the front face off the thermostat, exposing the base and take a volt meter and check the leads from the black wire and the red wire. Should be getting 24 volts. Does this furnace have a pilot light or is it an hot surface igniter type where it starts itself on a call for heat from the T-stat?

If the furnace has a fan inside that you can take and turn the fan option on the thermostat from either "auto" or "fan". You can also switch it to have the fan on. That will also verify you have 24 volts as well. Which also says the 120/24V transformer is working. Its a garage heater with baseboard heat so you may not have the fan for this check.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

I just installed one like that in my garage to run my pellet stove. :)

If you suspect the T-stat or the wiring to it, I'd try jumping the T-stat wires together somewhere near the furnace to see if you can get it to turn on. Then you'll at least know for sure that it's a wiring or T-stat problem somewhere downstream from where you jumped it.

Chris, a 2-wire T-stat doesn't have a fan switch... it's just an on/off heat circuit only.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

110v or 220v? If the house AC and garage heat are on the same 220v circuit is there a transfer switch somewhere?

bowtie · Secretary

This is the style I have:
http://homerepair.about.com/od/heatingcoolingrepair/ss/elec_htr_types_3.htm

No gas, no blower, just elements that warm up and radiate. I have a large ceiling fan to move it around when I turn the heat up.

I am going to run a multimeter across the t-stat to see about power there. I'm not aware of a crossover switch, and didn't do anything like that last winter going into summer, just turned the subpanel breaker to off. I know the main panel breaker is just a feed for the separate sub panel which then controls just the baseboard heaters.

ron fuller · Active Member

The thermostat for ac electric base board heaters works like a switch. If 240vac it switches one leg. If 120vac it switches the hot leg. With the volt meter verify you have power all the time on one wire then turn up the stat. You should see this power on the other wire. If you need help I live in coon rapids and could drop by.

bowtie · Secretary

I might give you a call here if I get stumped. Thanks.

ron fuller · Active Member

bryan pm sent

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Derek69SS wrote:
I just installed one like that in my garage to run my pellet stove. :)

If you suspect the T-stat or the wiring to it, I'd try jumping the T-stat wires together somewhere near the furnace to see if you can get it to turn on. Then you'll at least know for sure that it's a wiring or T-stat problem somewhere downstream from where you jumped it.

Chris, a 2-wire T-stat doesn't have a fan switch... it's just an on/off heat circuit only.

I was typing and got called away from the computer before I submitted my reply. Ron is exactly right though.

bowtie · Secretary

Here's what I know so far, I got a little more done between Basketball today.
1-I didn't mention that I have a separate power meter on the outside of the house that's for the A/C (and heaters I guess). It's not spinning. Icalled, and they say it's hooked up, supplied, and otherwise ready to give me power, so it's inside from there.
2-I pulled off the t-stat and twisted the 2 wires together, no heat.
3-No power at the wire nuts that are next to the transformer thing that supplies power to the t-stat.

That leads me to think that either the breaker is bad, or the transformer is bad. Illed the cover off the little subpanel, and there's no obvious signs of failure at a wire connection. I didn't look at the transformer yet.

Lost in the 60s · President

bowtie wrote:
Here's what I know so far, I got a little more done between Basketball today.
1-I didn't mention that I have a separate power meter on the outside of the house that's for the A/C (and heaters I guess). It's not spinning. Icalled, and they say it's hooked up, supplied, and otherwise ready to give me power, so it's inside from there.
2-I pulled off the t-stat and twisted the 2 wires together, no heat.
3-No power at the wire nuts that are next to the transformer thing that supplies power to the t-stat.

That leads me to think that either the breaker is bad, or the transformer is bad. Illed the cover off the little subpanel, and there's no obvious signs of failure at a wire connection. I didn't look at the transformer yet.

If there is no 24v power out of the transformer, you need to check the 120v power source TO the transformer. If there is power to it, then I would suspect the transformer went bad. If no power to the transformer, trace that source back to the panel. The transformer should run off a 120v circuit separate from the heater power (220v). Are there any other breakers not turned on in the panel ?

Chris R · 2K+ Club

The transformer likely doesnt have any 120V power getting to it is my guess since your not showing anything from the meter. Find the power and neutral wires going into the furnace for supply voltage and verify you have power going to it.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Chris R wrote:
The transformer likely doesnt have any 120V power getting to it is my guess since your not showing anything from the meter. Find the power and neutral wires going into the furnace for supply voltage and verify you have power going to it.

Ummm... he has electric baseboard heat. Not a gas fired furnace.

Same concept on the thermostat as far as I know though.

bowtie · Secretary

Back up the train, I called Connexus, and they think the "Power Nap" controller for the peak/off peak use thing is maybe faulty. I have red lights on there, and there should be a green one I assume. I get green flashing every so often, but no steady. My guess is Boxelder bug.

Lost in the 60s · President

bowtie wrote:
Back up the train, I called Connexus, and they think the "Power Nap" controller for the peak/off peak use thing is maybe faulty. I have red lights on there, and there should be a green one I assume. I get green flashing every so often, but no steady. My guess is Boxelder bug.

Oh sure, NOW you mention you have one of those. They fail fairly regularly.

SShink · 3K+ Club

My energy saver box on the house has green lights all the time unless it's being 'minded' by the man, then the led's are red. So, you might be on to something.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

SShink wrote:
Chris R wrote:
The transformer likely doesnt have any 120V power getting to it is my guess since your not showing anything from the meter. Find the power and neutral wires going into the furnace for supply voltage and verify you have power going to it.
Ummm... he has electric baseboard heat. Not a gas fired furnace.
Same concept on the thermostat as far as I know though.

There is still a transformer involved to cut the 120V down to 24 volts though. It doesnt matter if you have hot air or electric furnace or a boiler or any other style. Gas fired makes no difference.

bowtie · Secretary

Well, after much investigation and my wonderful moral support, chris narrowed it down to the breaker. The power supply was good, but back feeding through since one of the 2poles was bad. YAY! I had a spare to use as a test one and we confirmed it. Lots of frustration for a $12 part.

67ss · 1K+ Club

Stupid thing threw me for a loop. It seemed like both legs were hot since it was backfeeding through the heating element and back on to the leg that was actually dead. Oh well problem solved and heat is restored.

bowtie · Secretary

Thanks again. Got a correct breaker for $10 at Lowes, putting it in tomorrow.

ron fuller · Active Member

Sorry i couldn't make it over before my business trip to new jersey. It would have been easier than the 15 hour day i put in today.

bowtie · Secretary

All fixed, though after swapping in a new breaker, there still wasn't any output. Every time I filpped the main box breaker on, the saver switch thing outside would click and go into red light mode. WTF? After consulting Mr Know-it-all, he suggested waiting for the box to communicate back to the power company since it needed to be told the power circuit was OK (or something like that.) Either way, it works now and all the magical things that go with electricity are back in their homes.

I did learn some things yesterday, which might make me even more dangerous though I also have a little better understanding of how stuff works. Thanks again for the help.

Lost in the 60s · President

Glad Mr. Know-it-All got it working for you...

I know enough about electrical to be "dangerous" myself. I haven't killed anyone yet, that I kknow of.

John D · 2K+ Club

I think I know a little more than most about it, and I nearly killed myself this afternoon fixing stupid Christmas lights.... complacency will bite you - the depth of which is dependent upon grounding.

67ss · 1K+ Club

It is amazing how much time will get spent fixing a set of christmas lights instead of throwing them away and buying new ones. There must be something in our brains that says I will fix these things damit.

Lost in the 60s · President

67ss wrote:
It is amazing how much time will get spent fixing a set of christmas lights instead of throwing them away and buying new ones. There must be something in our brains that says I will fix these things damit.

I used to do that. I even have a "sensor" that is supposed to pinpoint right were the string needs fixin'. Since the cost of LEDs has come down I bought a few sets last year. The incandescent sets can only have 3 strings attached to prevent overloading the breaker. With LEDs, I can connect 33 SETS !!! The power savings alone are amazing and they don't break the element just by taking them down...

dashboard · 2K+ Club

xmas lite.jpg

I used to spend a lot of time doing Christmas lights, not anymore; put mine up this afternoon.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

dashboard wrote:
I used to spend a lot of time doing Christmas lights, not anymore; put mine up this afternoon.

Must have gotten some sort of secret snow storm that none of the rest of us got. Wierd.

bowtie · Secretary

Not even bothering this year. I don't think my ladder is tall enough and I don't really want to lead it up against the metal siding. Maybe I'll look into getting some sort of wreath or hangy thing for the front and use red and green light bulbs in the outside lights. Then again, maybe not. I'd rather go overboard for Halloween, at least I get the candy the kids drop as they run away scared.