Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

dashboard · 2K+ Club

FOOTBALL POLL

bowtie · Secretary

I say yes. The stadium isn't just for the sole use of the team. Concerts, college tournaments, high school tournaments, and other events would all be held there. Might even be a good place for a mega car show..... All of those things would be revenue back to the controlling party. I'm not up to speed on the details, but I would assumt the Vikings would be leasing the stadium for xxx amount of years, which means someone else actually owns it and can rent it out. Also, naming rights would pay for some, as well as outside advertising and on-site parking revenue. There's no other close parking, so it's carpool, light rail (not to there yet), or pay to park there.

Jon H · 1K+ Club

I can't complete the poll as I have three choices, all of which are not "yes". First off, how can we put money into a recreation issue when the State owes our schools how many millions that are on an IOU. Jesse Ventura made one great statement when he was Governor, when asked if the Vikings deserved a new stadium he looked around and said "We don't build new schools every fifteen years do we?" Personally I don't think Ziggy has as much interest in the stadium in Arden Hills as he does in developing all of the land on the site with retail, a convention center, hotels, etc. and making a fortune from the development. As Sid Hartman said on WCCO, with our new high tech tv's, the only reason to go to the stadium is to get drunk and act out. This is out of the mouth of probably the biggest sports reporter in the Twin Cities history. I watched part of the Green Bay game last night and watched the grown men in the bleachers in their costumes acting tough after a critical tackle and I couldn't help but believe they are living their dreams vicaiously because of their personal inadequacies. Vikings are 2 and 8. The Twins had a celebration because they only lost 99 games this year. Numerous news reports talk about our professional sports heros involved in dog fighting, drug and alcohol abuse, domestic abuse, etc., and these are the role models for our children? And you want me to pay more taxes to pay for a stadium? Sorry. Just one man's opinion.

Lost in the 60s · President

Jon H wrote:
I can't complete the poll as I have three choices, all of which are not "yes". First off, how can we put money into a recreation issue when the State owes our schools how many millions that are on an IOU. Jesse Ventura made one great statement when he was Governor, when asked if the Vikings deserved a new stadium he looked around and said "We don't build new schools every fifteen years do we?" Personally I don't think Ziggy has as much interest in the stadium in Arden Hills as he does in developing all of the land on the site with retail, a convention center, hotels, etc. and making a fortune from the development. As Sid Hartman said on WCCO, with our new high tech tv's, the only reason to go to the stadium is to get drunk and act out. This is out of the mouth of probably the biggest sports reporter in the Twin Cities history. I watched part of the Green Bay game last night and watched the grown men in the bleachers in their costumes acting tough after a critical tackle and I couldn't help but believe they are living their dreams vicaiously because of their personal inadequacies. Vikings are 2 and 8. The Twins had a celebration because they only lost 99 games this year. Numerous news reports talk about our professional sports heros involved in dog fighting, drug and alcohol abuse, domestic abuse, etc., and these are the role models for our children? And you want me to pay more taxes to pay for a stadium? Sorry. Just one man's opinion.
100%
Not ONE FRIGGIN' DIME for Ziggy, a sports "facility" or any other hand out to wealthy team owners. If taxpayers foot the cost of a stadium, they shouldn't have to pay admission.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

I'm with Jon on this one... Voted "NO"

Not the government's role to provide a privately owned sports team with a place to play, just as I don't expect them to build me a new house. They have a place to play, if that's not good enough, leave. I won't miss them.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Jon makes a very good point but ultimately, Bryan nailed it.

You have to look past the fact that this is a football stadium. There are hundreds of small business owners that depend on the Vikings so they can make a living too, with owning bars and resturaunts near the stadium or dome or whatever. The community also gains a lot of revinue from the team as well. Like football or not, like the way the team is playing lately or not. Its best to keep them here then to let them go.

If the team leaves. When (not if) Minnesota tries for an expansion team 10 years from now, it will cost us the taxpayer double anyways.

Although, this season has caused me to care a lot less then I have since I was a kid. Glad I didnt waste my time watching last nights game.

Lost in the 60s · President

Chris R wrote:
Jon makes a very good point but ultimately, Bryan nailed it.
You have to look past the fact that this is a football stadium. There are hundreds of small business owners that depend on the Vikings so they can make a living too, with owning bars and resturaunts near the stadium or dome or whatever. The community also gains a lot of revinue from the team as well. Like football or not, like the way the team is playing lately or not. Its best to keep them here then to let them go.
If the team leaves. When (not if) Minnesota tries for an expansion team 10 years from now, it will cost us the taxpayer double anyways.
Although, this season has caused me to care a lot less then I have since I was a kid. Glad I didnt waste my time watching last nights game.
THEY should be the ones to finance a stadium, not the entire population of the State. 90% of the rest of us don't get any benefit. I don't watch or support any professional sports team and have zero interest in them and sure as heck don't want my money donated to people who already have more than I can imagine.

bowtie · Secretary

Did the Northstars, Twins or Vikings contribute to the St Paul Civic Center or Metrodome or old Met Center?

Lost in the 60s · President

bowtie wrote:
Did the Northstars, Twins or Vikings contribute to the St Paul Civic Center or Metrodome or old Met Center?
I don't remember, but the State wasn't withholding funding from our schools because we are billions in the hole then either.
Times have changed, the economy still sucks and we don't have the funding available. Think about the sum.....700 million dollars. With the inevitable cost overruns it would be close to 1 BILLION for a stadium ??? What are they building it out of, gold ?
Our school district voted on 3 proposed levies Nov 2nd and all 3 were voted down. It was a narrow defeat and I voted for them, even though I didn't like the tax hike it would create, I would rather pay for education.
Instead of the people downtown and special interest groups deciding how to spend our money, it would be far more fair to put it to a state wide vote. Just like with the levies, let ALL the people decide if they want this.

-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Wednesday 16th of November 2011 10:14:05 AM

Derek69SS · Founding Member

I'd possibly benefit from it as much as anybody... the thought of huge expanses of bare concrete parking lots would be very awesome for bringing big SCCA events to MN (example: Miller Park in Milwaukee).

Still, it's not the government's role to build a facility for any private entity. Forcibly taking money out of my pocket will not help the economy either... just means I have less to spend locally, supporting the mom & pop shops that are already hurting.

John D · 2K+ Club

I might support a dollar to dollar matching program such as this:

MN residents pay $1 toward the stadium
"Ziggy & Co." match the $1, to be used for every school program EXCEPT sports. Keep Arts, Music, Science, & Tech programs alive!!

These programs are being CUT every single budget session, while school sports teams have facilities and equipment rivaling semi-pro teams.

(Ziggy gets his stadium, but he has to fund the future... and not the elite 10%, but the 90% who will be entering the workforce.)

Don't get me started on this...

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Chris R wrote:
Jon makes a very good point but ultimately, Bryan nailed it.
You have to look past the fact that this is a football stadium. There are hundreds of small business owners that depend on the Vikings so they can make a living too, with owning bars and resturaunts near the stadium or dome or whatever. The community also gains a lot of revinue from the team as well. Like football or not, like the way the team is playing lately or not. Its best to keep them here then to let them go.
If the team leaves. When (not if) Minnesota tries for an expansion team 10 years from now, it will cost us the taxpayer double anyways.
Although, this season has caused me to care a lot less then I have since I was a kid. Glad I didnt waste my time watching last nights game.
THEY should be the ones to finance a stadium, not the entire population of the State. 90% of the rest of us don't get any benefit. I don't watch or support any professional sports team and have zero interest in them and sure as heck don't want my money donated to people who already have more than I can imagine.

Exactly. That there is the same reason that annoys me too about all of this. And I am a sports fan, and I think its rediculous that sports as a whole makes in the billions of dollars yet taxpayers are left to help with the bill. Its hard enough to make ends meet these days and they want to take more from our paychecks to finance this thing.

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

It is amazing how far we have fallen. Today Sports always takes center stage vs the people that make our lives what they are today. Technology, inovation, hard work, & people who actually work. The irony, daily work grinders take the back seat to all the benifits yet are asked to foot the bill.
Gov't likes sports it keeps the people at ease gives them and outlet. It keeps there mind off trying to overthrough the man. It has been popular since the Greek and Roman times. It amazes me how people get so frustraited, & excited about sports. The time, money, big business, marketing and all that goes into it. To me 75% is a waste of time. My Son likes the Steelers he watched a Sunday game one week. I watch with him and he was getting bored. This 10yr old made an interesting comment. "They talk more about football then what is actually played" I admit we do enjoy going to baseball, football (going not so fun for us) and hockey games from time to time. We like Monster Jam better.
Sports is big Money and marketing. The team owners use this as leverage on the community leaders threatening to leave knowing it will hurt everyones bottom line in the area. They and local gov't use the emotions and loyalty of the fans to get what they want.

I say start watching College or better yet High school football. I have more fun watching my son play football, or baseball then pro anything.

Jon H · 1K+ Club

Bowtieman427 wrote:
It is amazing how far we have fallen. Today Sports always takes center stage vs the people that make our lives what they are today. Technology, inovation, hard work, & people who actually work. The irony, daily work grinders take the back seat to all the benifits yet are asked to foot the bill.
Gov't likes sports it keeps the people at ease gives them and outlet. It keeps there mind off trying to overthrough the man. It has been popular since the Greek and Roman times. It amazes me how people get so frustraited, & excited about sports. The time, money, big business, marketing and all that goes into it. To me 75% is a waste of time. My Son likes the Steelers he watched a Sunday game one week. I watch with him and he was getting bored. This 10yr old made an interesting comment. "They talk more about football then what is actually played" I admit we do enjoy going to baseball, football (going not so fun for us) and hockey games from time to time. We like Monster Jam better.
Sports is big Money and marketing. The team owners use this as leverage on the community leaders threatening to leave knowing it will hurt everyones bottom line in the area. They and local gov't use the emotions and loyalty of the fans to get what they want.

I say start watching College or better yet High school football. I have more fun watching my son play football, or baseball then pro anything.

Jim,

I agree 100%, high school or college ball is a lot more enjoyable to watch. They make mistakes and laugh them off. I remember playing high school ball and although we all took it seriously it was a game and that is all it was. We all played and enjoyed ourselves. Ah, the good old days.

Scott Parkhurst · Super Poster

I think it would be harder to vote if I'd grown up here. Having just moved here in 2004 I don't bleed purple or anything.

After being in Los Angeles and seeing the Rams/Raiders debacles, it changed how I look at pro sports.

Growing up in Buffalo NY- that's all we had. I mean, it was pretty obvious the city was a rusty pile. The weather was notoriously awful.

But, we had the Bills and the Sabres and as kids, that was really important. I remember one of my elementary school teachers had the entire Sabres schedule up on one whole wall of the classroom, and we tracked every win, loss, tie, and point the entire season and through the playoffs.

The Sabres were recently purchased by a guy local to the area who committed to keeping the team there and investing whatever it took to make them winners. The place went nuts over this guy- he was an instant hero.

The owner of the Bills is in his 90s and is expected to die every year...but he keeps on truckin. Until then, no one knows what will happen to them.

I like the Racino ideas I've heard here, and asking the team to give back to the area's schools is also a good idea. I've been pretty impressed at the variety of plans I've heard tossed around (that kind of variety never existed in LA...so the teams left).

It sure seems like they want to get it all figured out. Talking the government into cleaning up that Arden Hills site has been the best move so far. They agreed on a price, and the government will pay for all the cleanup. The cost of the cleanup comes out of the price. That land might be free by the time the EPA says its clean. Smart move, Arden Hills...

For the kid's sake, I do hope they stay here though. It meant a lot to me as a kid and I think kids just enjoy the game and the players without the BS we adults see. The Vikes actually have some history here and that doesn't travel well.

Lost in the 60s · President

Scott Parkhurst wrote:
The Sabres were recently purchased by a guy local to the area who committed to keeping the team there and investing whatever it took to make them winners. The place went nuts over this guy- he was an instant hero.

It sure seems like they want to get it all figured out. Talking the government into cleaning up that Arden Hills site has been the best move so far. They agreed on a price, and the government will pay for all the cleanup. The cost of the cleanup comes out of the price. That land might be free by the time the EPA says its clean. Smart move, Arden Hills...

For the kid's sake, I do hope they stay here though. It meant a lot to me as a kid and I think kids just enjoy the game and the players without the BS we adults see. The Vikes actually have some history here and that doesn't travel well.
And that is EXACTLY how a professional sports venue should be operated. The OWNER pays for it and profits or loses from it. Why should the taxpayers have an investment in a team thru a venue. They should be given stock until the LOAN is payed back, yet the current nightmare is that Ziggy will LOAN the 400 million to us and then expect it to be paid back and probably with interest.....huh ??? I'm an independant business owner and no one gives me money when I run short and when I need to borrow funds, I have to pay it back.
Second point. The Arden Hills site absolutely has to be cleaned up at some point and should've been many years ago. Regardless of which government, State or Fed, it is STILL taxpayer money. Yes, it's spread out further with the Feds paying and they should, since it was them who polluted it.
Yes, the Vikings do have a long and storied history here but at what cost to us should that be preserved ?? At some point, we need to put a limit on how important professional sports are and not cross the line. I feel we are at the line and the thinking that we need to keep them here at any cost is not valid. Bud Grant built the Vikings into a serious contender for many years and when it was time for him to be done with them, he walked away and moved on with his life. We could learn something from that. How many schools with years of history have been closed due to lack of funding in the Metro area alone in the last few years ? It still appears we value a pro sports team more than education.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:

And that is EXACTLY how a professional sports venue should be operated. The OWNER pays for it and profits or loses from it. Why should the taxpayers have an investment in a team thru a venue.

IMO it's sometimes hard for people to separate the Metrodome's use as a Vikings sports venue versus a year round event center.

I've attended other non-Viking events at the Metro dome that were non-sporting events too (i.e. the MN state high school marching band competitions). In this cold weather climate, the metro area needs someplace to gather during the cold or winter months for events and is more than just a 'stadium'.

That's why when I see proposed designs, I can't believe they are even considering not having a roof, or at least a retractable roof.

If a new stadium is built, I think it should be a metro event center for the community (especially if our taxes are going to help pay for it), not just for the Vikings.

That's my

Jon H · 1K+ Club

What is interesting is that with the new roof and floor and the fact we are willing to give it to Ziggy for 1 cent, there is ABSOLTELY nothing wrong with the dome to continue to be used for the viking EXCEPT it does not have enough suites in it to be sold and can not make the amount of money Ziggy wants. The bottom line is Ziggy's profit. Period, end of story. The done has and could continue to successfully be used for a whole bunch of venues, but it ain't what Mr. New Jersey wants. Wah, wah, wah!

-- Edited by Jon H on Thursday 17th of November 2011 07:53:03 PM

jim larson · 2K+ Club

No! There is not one economist who thinks the Viking bring any money to MN. That argument is BS and I don't mean a Bachelor of Science degree. The money spent because of the Vikings , will be spent in other areas, if the Vikings go back to Norway, where Ziggy does not hold options on all the real estate.

This is a give away to Ziggy. Arden Hills only, why? Guess who is the real estate developer. He thinks people are stupid and special interest people will prevail. At least there is some fan ownership in Green Bay.

For a guy who participated in sports and then continued that with 32 years coaching, I would not spend one dime on professional sports as they exist today. Well maybe the Lynx.

Jim