Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Out with the old

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Looks like the weather may cooperate for a drive, good luck with the change.

John D · 2K+ Club

Don't forget the LUBricant... jab, jab... there's a copyright on nicknames.

Lost in the 60s · President

John D wrote:
Don't forget the LUBricant... jab, jab... there's a copyright on nicknames.

I've always wondered how he got that nickname. Now I need to hear the whole story behind it...

Congrats on the install, Kevin. I knew you'd throw it in. You retired guys have all day to play while I sit in my truck for 11 hours...

SShink · 3K+ Club

Kevin, as you have said before... "This thing needs pics!". Cough 'em up buddy!

Lost in the 60s · President

SShink wrote:
Kevin, as you have said before... "This thing needs pics!". Cough 'em up buddy!

dashboard · 2K+ Club

My RS 500 is installed, serviced and ready for a test drive tomorrow morning. My speedometer cable is on back order. After looking at the clearance, it’s going to be really tight getting that baby in there, I’ll use GPS for now. Anyone know of a 90* offset Speedo adapter?

The RS 500 mount bolts from trany to bell housing where a real challenge. After an hour standing in front of my bench grinder, grinding on crows feet and box end wrenches I had some custom made RS 500 special tools.

The home made trany to jack adapter was a real plus with close clearances, it’s a tight fit but it goes in there and I have greater than the required ¼ inch clearance all around.

Trany, driveshaft, rear end, alignment with all four wheels on the deck looks like a lazar line.

-- Edited by dashboard on Wednesday 26th of October 2011 09:26:21 PM

-- Edited by dashboard on Thursday 27th of October 2011 08:01:08 AM

Lost in the 60s · President

Wow, those mounting bolts do look like a PITA. Is the dizzy cap farther from the firewall now ? Wish I could ride with for the first time out. I bet your grin will be stuck on for days.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Had to seat the trany, pull it out about 1.5 inch’s start the bolts then run it in one flat at a time. No real difference in disty clearance.

John D · 2K+ Club

These guys may be able to help - http://www.gaugeguys.com/

I think this is the outfit that Stan got is ratio/correction adapter from...

John D · 2K+ Club

Here's another source, with dimensions: http://www.transmissioncenter.net/speedometer_calibration_______va.htm#90 Degree

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Install is complete, today I took it out for the second functional test drive, after the first one, I had two discrepancies. A nasty leak at the tail shaft and a high frequency vibration in the shifter handle a real zing or buzz sound.

The leak was a quick fix; I just replaced the output shaft seal. The vibration took more time to track down. Spent about two hours on the phone with an engineer at Keisler they were very professional and helpful then an hour on the phone with Mitch our number one crew chief. I rechecked everything, then I raised the tail shaft mount 3/16 of an inch, and went out for the second test drive. There it was again buzzing away, this time I isolated it and fixed it. I remembered something the Keisler rep said on the phone; he mentioned they had a problem some time ago with a Hurst shifter knob. So while cruising down Cliff road I reached down, unscrewed the shifter knob and Mr. Zing & Buzz left.

Things do change over time, I used to think that there would never be anything better than mother’s milk, then I found cold beer and salted peanuts. I also thought there could never be anything better then yanking the handle on a M22 rockcrusher and listening to that unmistakable Muncie whine.

I’m still a little uncomfortable driving it because every since of speed for the last thirty years in the Elky has been based on the feedback from the M22 whine, it’s gone now. In fact, I now hear noises I’ve never heard before like the radiator fan spinning up and the exhaust. This 3.27 first gear is nice, yanks the Elky out of the hole and hitting second gear (1.99) feels very good so I think I’ll stay with the 3.08 rear for now.

It’s very smooth, quite and shifts great, best part and the real reason I got it in the first place, cruising down 35E at 75 MPH at 1950 RPM and able to talk to the person sitting next to me.

Lost in the 60s · President

That is crazy that the knob rattles. When I went on a couple cruises with the '66, I could hear a rapid vibration too and the wife was with on the second one and asked what it was. I told her with my bad hearing I couldn't tell where it was coming from, but I remembered that while shifting I didn't hear it. I touched the shift knob lightly and it was vibrating ever so slightly back and forth.

John D · 2K+ Club

Very Cool !

Wierd about the shifter knob... maybe too much mass? I'm thinking along the lines of something dense/heavy at the end of a stick, hitting a harmonic and going cyclical.

You may need to utilize your woodworking skills and carve up a custom one out of a nice hunk of burlwood that's lighter.

bowtie · Secretary

Easy fix!

(make sure you call them back, report it's fixed, and thank them)

Feedback like that is what helps them redesign things and help others when issues like this come up.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Gee, I don't seem to hear anything coming from my shift knob. How does raising the rear trans mount change the pinion angle? I may have to pull the transmission for a minor oil leak issue this winter . Kevin could you send me the plans that you used for building that adaptor for your floor jack? Thinking your 1.99 @ 3.08 is all most the same as the m20 with 1.88 @ 3.31 . But you are lot lower in 1st, 10.07 engine revolution to 8.34 engine revolution per tire revolution.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

John, I am going to try another shifter ball if that doesn’t work; I’ll install a rubber bushing between the shifter handle and the transmission. I’m not done yet, I still need to install the speedometer cable when it arrives, wire up the backup lights, and determine what I’m going to do with the factory reverse interlock to the steering wheel/ignition switch linkage. I’ll do all that when the engine and trany are removed this winter.

Bryan, the first thing I did when I got back from the test drive (after checking for a leak) was send Keisler email. They have been just outstanding to deal with.

Jim, Vibration often display themselves in objects that extend out from the vehicle, like mirrors, antennas, shifters, tailpipes and the like. The point of resonance on my Elky seems to be the shifter handle. I learned a lot about vibration analysis over 30 years in Naval Aviation. It’s very possible the zing was there before with the M22 and I just never heard it over the M22 whine. Do you have the factory shifter in yours? GM may have used some rubber bushings to dampen out vibrations.

I only raised the transmission mount to see if it would make any difference in the vibration.

Sorry,I don’t have any plans for the jack adapter, I just built it on the fly. Your more than welcome use it; it has a 1” shaft that slips into the jack, check your jack mount pad.

The 3.37 first gear with my 3.08 rear is the equivalent of 4.11 when coming out of the hole,

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Yep in 1st m20 2.52x4.11= 10.3796 and 3.37x3.08= 10.3796

Maybe you could send me a photo at my email address of the adapter with dimensions indicated? I just think it would be helpfull to have one in the garage

dashboard · 2K+ Club

How about we meet for lunch and I give it to you so you can copy it?

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Unless its too heavy. Put a #8 billiard ball on it for a shifter.

Lost in the 60s · President

Chris R wrote:
Unless its too heavy. Put a #8 billiard ball on it for a shifter.
#6 would fit better...

jim larson · 2K+ Club

dashboard wrote:
How about we meet for lunch and I give it to you so you can copy it?

Rachael is coming back from visiting the grandkids in FL tomorrow. I pick her up at 6:15 PM. Maybe I could stop by in the afternoon and check out your projects and pick it up? If ok, email me your address.

Jim

gearlube · Active Member

I got the name because when I installed my Muncie I forgot the gear lube after install and running it a few times. Hence the name.
Great job Kevin! I am switching to tko500 this winter to....

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Chris R wrote:
Unless its too heavy. Put a #8 billiard ball on it for a shifter.
#6 would fit better...

#6 is a solid green color. That wont match his color scheme. Since there isnt any silver colored billiard balls, black goes with everything.

The only problem is, they are not light. So it would almost be a dead weight which may not be good for the synchro's inside the trans. Although, ive never actually heard any proof of anyone that had to replace parts inside a transmission because of the shift knob.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Rachael is coming back from visiting the grandkids in FL tomorrow. I pick her up at 6:15 PM. Maybe I could stop by in the afternoon and check out your projects and pick it up? If ok, email me your address.

Jim, check your PMs.

I'm ten minutes from MSP airport.

Lost in the 60s · President

Chris R wrote:
Lost in the 60s wrote:
Chris R wrote:
Unless its too heavy. Put a #8 billiard ball on it for a shifter.
#6 would fit better...

#6 is a solid green color. That wont match his color scheme.
Uh, Kevin........ Any comment ??

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Very soon it’s going to be so cold, we’re all going to have blue balls. Or, it’s going to be cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey.

Here’s the one I ordered.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

dashboard wrote:

Rachael is coming back from visiting the grandkids in FL tomorrow. I pick her up at 6:15 PM. Maybe I could stop by in the afternoon and check out your projects and pick it up? If ok, email me your address.

Jim, check your PMs.
I'm ten minutes from MSP airport.

See you around mid afternoon, if that time is OK?

dashboard · 2K+ Club

#6 is a solid green color. That wont match his color scheme.
Uh, Kevin........ Any comment ??

Oh, not yet.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Dont be paint'n it green either.

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

Do you remember Mood Rings? How about a Mood Shifter? Turns colors based on the mood your in during shifts?

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Dave, allow me to update my post.

"Things do change over time, I used to think that there would never be anything better than mother’s milk, and then I discovered cold beer and salted peanuts.

I also thought there could never be anything better then yanking the handle on an M 22 rock-crusher and listening to that unmistakable Muncie whine behind a Big Block Chevy, then I discovered the RS 500."

Yep, mood rings. In fact, I’m starting to think Derrick, Tom, and Scott have known these things for a long time. Up next, at the Bow Tie Brunch I need to tie Derrick to a chair and grill him on suspension upgrades.

However, I love the mood ring idea, cop pulls me over and I can say, officer look at shifter knob, I was being very mellow. Now ya have to think, what could he say?

Chris, going to have to wait and see on the color.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

You don't have to tie me to a chair, just mention the topic and I'll talk your ear off.

Enganeer · Mega Poster

We'll confine him to a paint booth to minimize outside distractions. I want to upgrade my elky suspension also. I'll be bringing my speedway catalog.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Great idea, what a way to start getting rid of that 2012 money right away.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Just have Derek and Scott give you a list of the parts they have on thier cars and go out and buy what they got.

Lost in the 60s · President

Chris R wrote:
Just have Derek and Scott give you a list of the parts they have on their cars and go out and buy what they got.
Unless the others are planning to autocross too, they would be spending at least double what they need for a great handling street machine. There are many changes that can be made with the stock suspension parts to improve handling. We tend to forget that many of our cars still have 40 year old bushings and they are junk. I replaced all the front end bushings on my '66 with ProThane urethane, added a heavier sway bar with urethane end and frame bushings and the car corners way better than it ever did from the factory. I also put Global West offset upper control arm shafts in but the alignment guy said he still couldn't get much more caster/camber out of them, so if that is desired, then tubular uppers with improved alignment capabilty are needed. Really no advantage from replacing the lowers, as there are no geometry changes, just lighter weight and more strength for extreme performance. And then you get into shocks. Most street cars don't need multi-adjustable shocks or coil-overs either.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

I agree with Mitch... the question I always ask is "Do you want it to handle well, or feel like it handles well?" There's a big difference, and if you're not actually exceeding the limits of the tires, there's not much reason to spend big money to get from one to the other.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Wow, it was really only a joke. Obviously only guys who are serious about autocrossing are going to spend thousands on suspension parts. I didnt think I was going to need to explain that (hence the smiley) but alrighty then.

Lost in the 60s · President

There are plenty of people who have spent many thousands of dollars on suspension without ever coming close to using it to it's capability. Some reading your post would do exactly that, go out and get the best when it isn't necessary.

gearlube · Active Member

On my white chevelle it took me a lot to get the stance and handling. Probably a couple of grand too. Was it worth it? No. But it was a learning experience non the less.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Hey guys, I wont be doing any road rallies in the near future with the Elky. I would like to be able to turn a little better and certainly be able to stop quicker however.

Everyone seems to be correct here. I did increases the size of my forward sway bar and install a rear one along with new firmer shocks. What a difference, maybe that’s how it starts and I should be careful.

I was really just looking for some handling 101 ideas, we have some subject matter experts in the club and I will be picking their brains

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
There are plenty of people who have spent many thousands of dollars on suspension without ever coming close to using it to it's capability. Some reading your post would do exactly that, go out and get the best when it isn't necessary.

Ill refer you back to my previous response then.

There isnt anyone in this club that is foolish enough to spend that kind of money, or even has that kind of money. Whom wouldnt take the time to do thier research before shelling out the kind of cash for full on pro touring suspension.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

I have almost completed my wish list for the Elkys winter projects; unfortunately the 2012 budget is being exhausted quickly. I tried to break it down to needs and wants, only to realize there are no needs it’s all wants so now it is which want comes first.

I’m looking for some guidance on Disk brake kits. I currently have the factory installed front disk, rear drum setup but would like to go with four wheel disk if I could increases the brake action. I want the Elky to maintain its stock appearance as much as possible so one requirement is the factory Z15 rims must fit when it’s done.

I see Year One, Ground Up and lots of other venders have four wheel disk kits plus they go on sale this time of year, do those mod kits tend to come with cheaper parts?

Could someone point me in a direction to start my research? What happens to the E Brake?

Thanks for listening guys.

Lost in the 60s · President

Personally, I think rear discs are a waste of money on most street cars and especailly on an Elky, as the back is so light to begin with that by the time you turn the pressure down to prevent lock-up, you haven't gained a thing over the drums. I suggest starting with rebuilding your calipers or buying rebuilts. If yours haven't been touched since new, they are full of sludge and the pistons are sticky. If you really insist on spending money, look at the aftermarket 2 or 4 piston calipers that bolt to the original mount and use a standard size disc. They will improve the brake force. Good quality pads that are fade resistant can help too. If the drums won't lock the rears under hard pedal pressure, they need to be rebuilt too....new cylinders, shoes, hardware kit and resurface or replace the drums. If all that has been done and they still don't lock up, maybe it's time for a new master cylinder.
I went from manual drums on the '66 to power front discs right off a '75 Nova. I rebuilt the calipers but re-used the pads that came with the conversion. They are some sort of performance pad. Everything in the rear is new and the master is too. The car stops very well now !!

Derek69SS · Founding Member

I have to agree with Mitch again... the only real advantage rear discs have over drums is that they look cool, and if you're running stock wheels, nobody will see them anyway.

A good rebuild with quality pads and shoes will give you much performance as you can use with regular 15" street radials.

67ss · 1K+ Club

If you really want to upgrade the rears instead of looking at discs I would look into the 11" drum upgrade instead. Much cheaper overall and you don't have to change master cylinders or pressure bias.

I have accumulated the parts to do this on my 66 when I finally get the 12 bolt. But Master power brake sells a complete kit instead of trying to piece things.

John D · 2K+ Club

Personally, I think rear discs are a waste of money on most street cars and especailly on an Elky, as the back is so light to begin with...

Elky's being light in the azz-end is a myth - they are actually more weight "balanced" than the other models. What is punched steel or plastic in a wagon is solid steel in an Elky's azz - and don't forget the boxed frame. Just 'cause it's open in back doesn't mean it's light!

(A 4-dr sedan is 22lbs. heavier, and then only a decked out 4-door wagon or a convert is heavier!)

Spec's for '72

CHEVELLE & GREENBRIER
VEHICLE TYPE		SHIPPING WEIGHT			CURB WEIGHT
Model	Description	Front	Rear	Total	Front	Rear	Total
13436	4-Door, 2-Seat Station Wagon 8-cylinder	1820	1994	3814	1801	2105	3906
13337	2-Door Sport Coupe 6-cylinder	1783	1389	3172	1764	1505	3269
13437	2-Door Sport Coupe 8-cylinder	1891	1409	3300	1872	1525	3397
13446	4-Door, 3-Seat Station Wagon 8-cylinder	1813	2057	3870	1794	2168	3962
13369	4-Door Sedan 6-cylinder	1799	1405	3204	1780	1521	3301
13469	4-Door Sedan 8-cylinder	1905	1427	3332	1886	1543	3429
13380	2-Door Sedan Pickup 6-cylinder	1800	1413	3213	1871	1529	3310
13480	2-Door Sedan Pickup 8-cylinder	1905	1436	3341	1886	1552	3438

MALIBU & CONCOURS
VEHICLE TYPE		SHIPPING WEIGHT			CURB WEIGHT
Model	Description	Front	Rear	Total	Front	Rear	Total
13636	4-Door, 2-Seat Station Wagon 8-cylinder	1803	2054	3857	1784	2165	3949
13537	2-Door Sport Coupe 6-cylinder	1796	1398	3194	1777	1514	3291
13637	2-Door Sport Coupe 8-cylinder	1909	1418	3327	1890	1534	3424
13639	4-Door Sport Sedan 8-cylinder	1939	1498	3438	1920	1615	3535
13646	4-Door, 3-Seat Station Wagon 8-cylinder	1830	2057	3870	1794	2168	3962
13667	2-Door Convertible 8-cylinder	1894	1485	3379	1875	1601	3476
13569	4-Door Sedan 6-cylinder	1823	1417	3240	1804	1533	3337
13669	4-Door Sedan 8-cylinder	1922	1449	3371	1904	1565	3469
13680	2-Door Sedan Pickup 8-cylinder	1912	1438	3350	1893	1554	3447

I'd rebuild your existing, or do the "upgrade" to the 11". You'd need a lot of other mods to realize/justify the benefits, expense, and PITA of 4wh discs.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Thanks guys, sound advice from a trusted source, I’ll clean it up and rebuild original parts this winter; I’ve not stood on the peddle to see if the rears will lock up. Taking Stan for a new five-speed test drive tomorrow, I’ll try that when I think he least expects it.

Thanks again for the quick feed back, gosh, I like this club.

Lost in the 60s · President

dashboard wrote:
I’ve not stood on the peddle to see if the rears will lock up. Taking Stan for a new five-speed test drive tomorrow, I’ll try that when I think he least expects it.

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