Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

Lost in the 60s · President

RE: Did a bad thing... found LS1Tech!

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

Little more talk on LSx here is a history article found. Lots of different flavors of LSx out there.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0901gmhtp_ls1_ls6_ls2_ls3_l99_ls4_ls7_ls9_lsa_engine_history/index.html

Mine runs terrible when cold until it is warmed up which takes a little while longer when cold. Cold blooded. Took my son, daughter and daughter's friend to PI cruise in. Son insisted on taking ride after and it ran good. I stomped on it at 20MPH it roared shot up to 70 instantly on our quiet middle of no ware county roads. My daughter's friend was thrilled to death and wanted me to do it again. They were all sad when we had to get home and they wanted to keep driving around. I think I am a bad influence.

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

I spent way more then I should have on my engine going with the Dart Heads and Holley EFI system and that was on the cheap side. For me to sell this engine and start with another engine build would really be another step backwards and I'm not moving forward that fast to begin with. On the technical side it would make building the new frame with needed engine set backs easier along with an all aluminum block to lower weight. Handling increases with better weight distribution with suspension modifications then I would have to look at suspension again. Since the suspension and brakes according to the Pro Tour folks, and custom chassis builders is about as outdated as it gets I need to change all that.

It never ends as new Aluminum and exotic materials come out all the time and my pocket can not keep up with the trends.
You can also send your donations to " POOR DAVES LIFE FUND" Cash Check VISA Master Card American Express and PayPal dontions greatfully accepted. Can't you please help a poor guy out and put another classic car back on the streets?

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Dave, don't worry about keeping up with the most current trends... most of the guys with all the high-end parts can't drive 'em worth a damn anyway. Your suspension will be fine. If you have decent camber gain and good tires, you're 95% of the way there. You could spend a LOT of money to get that last 5% out of the car, but if you only drive it at 80%, what's the point? There are VERY FEW 100% drivers on this planet... wish I was one of them.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Yep, vacuum leaks don't let an engine idle well. Do you have a vacuum gauge to set the idle screws ? They help dial it in closer than by ear.

Yep, have a vacuum gauge. The max reading I can tune for is 10.5-11" of vacuum.

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

Derek69SS wrote:
Dave, don't worry about keeping up with the most current trends... most of the guys with all the high-end parts can't drive 'em worth a damn anyway. Your suspension will be fine. If you have decent camber gain and good tires, you're 95% of the way there. You could spend a LOT of money to get that last 5% out of the car, but if you only drive it at 80%, what's the point? There are VERY FEW 100% drivers on this planet... wish I was one of them.

You mean that the only way to win a contest is to have a purpose built car with huge amounts of cash dumped into it. The same guys who were running RSE at CC said their products are the only way to build a winning car. SOMEBODY forgot to give SCOTT that message so his win must be null and void then. He still had the stock chassis with bolt on parts, and he wasn't running an LS1 either.

Lost in the 60s · President

Scott is still running the stock frame but that is about where the similarities end. He has a lot of suspension modifications under that car.

Stan, that cam has a lot of overlap to only get 11' vacuum. Could be part of the low mpg issue, along with the ever constant flapper valve wanting to be open...

Jon H · 1K+ Club

Glad your car is running better Stan.

I understand trying to make life simple, but if a swap to all new modern equipment and electonics were the answer why not go out and buy a new Camaro and never have any issues.

Isn't it all about learning and driving the original stuff, which does include headaches of timing, carbs, brittle wiring, bad grounds, leaky vacuum, bad seals, etc?

If we all showed up with cars with no issues, what would we talk and/or complain about?

67ss · 1K+ Club

Edelbrock carbs are like Q jets in that they use a spring on the metering rods. If the springs are to stiff the rods don't pull down all the way at idle and it runs pig rich. Your carb should have come with a book and inside it it has a tuning table that might help you.

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Scott is still running the stock frame but that is about where the similarities end. He has a lot of suspension modifications under that car.
Stan, that cam has a lot of overlap to only get 11' vacuum. Could be part of the low mpg issue, along with the ever constant flapper valve wanting to be open...

I thought More overlap = less vacuum ?

what is the cam grind ? Thought he was running a 280H or 292H

What LSA ? How much overlap do you have ?

There is also a consideration for what the SCR if running to low of a compression for the cam vacuum will suffer ? What is your DCR

Thought he had it Dyno'd should be able to see from the peaks and see the Volumetric efficiency of the setup. Running OD and if the engine is lugging could be the problem too.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Bowtieman427 wrote:
Lost in the 60s wrote:
Stan, that cam has a lot of overlap to only get 11' vacuum. Could be part of the low mpg issue, along with the ever constant flapper valve wanting to be open...
I thought More overlap = less vacuum ?
what is the cam grind ? Thought he was running a 280H or 292H
What LSA ? How much overlap do you have ?
There is also a consideration for what the SCR if running to low of a compression for the cam vacuum will suffer ? What is your DCR
Thought he had it Dyno'd should be able to see from the peaks and see the Volumetric efficiency of the setup. Running OD and if the engine is lugging could be the problem too.

Good memory Jim. I'm running a Melling cam that's very similar to a 280H. I don't have the specs handy. I don't know the compression ratio other than it is a stock 402 c.i. block bored 0.030 over with the stock rebuilt heads. I'm guessing it's about 9:1?

No lugging other than around town if I leave it in OD, as it will shift into 4th at 30 mph if I don't give it much gas. I usually don't leave it in OD at that low of speeds. On the highway, the converter should be locked up because it has a 2400 rpm stall, and that's where I'm at around 65 mph.

I think the mileage issue is the deep gears (even with OD) and my heavy foot! I don't drive the Chevelle for mileage... but it would be nice to at least get around 15 or so...

BB502 · Active Member

Fuel injection seems the way to go, we all love our cars when there running good and it's cold out, but we drive them in the summer when it's hot out. Would be nice to have them run better when we are using them. The LS motors seems to be the way to go price wise, you can put the whole thing in with tranny cheaper than just buying the fast efi or holley units, you just have extra install time. My thought is we drive them for the look and feel not what the motor looks like. Do it Stan.

Lost in the 60s · President

BB502 wrote:
Fuel injection seems the way to go, we all love our cars when there running good and it's cold out, but we drive them in the summer when it's hot out. Would be nice to have them run better when we are using them. The LS motors seems to be the way to go price wise, you can put the whole thing in with tranny cheaper than just buying the fast efi or holley units, you just have extra install time. My thought is we drive them for the look and feel not what the motor looks like. Do it Stan.
Not me, I'm old school (and just plain old) and I want my cars to look period correct. I'll upgrade drum to power disc, as I did on my '66, but with all original looking parts. I put the alternator back where it belonged too. Now as for a power plant, who can tell if it's a 396, 402 or 454. For me the more the better and I'm all for getting more power, but again, it needs to look correct. I know the LS motors will run circles around the old technology and get better mpg to boot but I'm not ready to make that leap.

SShink · 3K+ Club

That's the other dilemma I have... my Chevelle is all 'stock' appearing. Throwing in that LS engine will make a guy scratch his head and say 'huh?'.

So, my ideal scenario is to find a plain jane Malibu, put in the LS and modern trans, then smoke some folks that wouldn't expect it!

Problem is... I can't fund having more than 1 Chevelle at a time, so I'm keeping the one I have, and probably the way it's set up now.

BB502 · Active Member

I love BB's that being said fuel injection makes them happy. If it wasn't so much money to put it on I would have it, but I don't. I see both sides and agree with all the different ways to look at it and to each there own, I don't have a LS motor and I only clean the top of the hood so I don't open the hood at car shows so people don't no whats under it anyway. So just enjoy your ride whatever it is.

SteveS · Super Poster

It is interesting to see peoples reactions. I went to the Stewartville friday night cruise in a couple of weeks ago. One guy walked up, looked under my hood, swore out load, shook his head and stomped off. I can see some liking the old, and some liking the new, but this guy was really ticked off .

Derek69SS · Founding Member

SteveS wrote:
It is interesting to see peoples reactions. I went to the Stewartville friday night cruise in a couple of weeks ago. One guy walked up, looked under my hood, swore out load, shook his head and stomped off. I can see some liking the old, and some liking the new, but this guy was really ticked off .

That's hilarious!!! Wish I could have seen it.

It was probably the same guy I overheard there a few years ago say "These wheels over 15" are just a fad" while pointing at a brand new Z06 Corvette that House Chevrolet had there on display (they were the sponsor that night).

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Any car with fuel injection is just a fad too. No matter if its built today or a classic.

John D · 2K+ Club

I'll have to keep my ears open around mine more often... I'll bet some doozies are uttered!

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

BB502 wrote:
I love BB's that being said fuel injection makes them happy. If it wasn't so much money to put it on I would have it, but I don't. I see both sides and agree with all the different ways to look at it and to each there own, I don't have a LS motor and I only clean the top of the hood so I don't open the hood at car shows so people don't no whats under it anyway. So just enjoy your ride whatever it is.

X2 especailly the EFI BBC part.

Lost in the 60s · President

John D wrote:
I'll have to keep my ears open around mine more often... I'll bet some doozies are uttered!
Especially the one where "my buddy had one just like this 30 years ago"...

67ss · 1K+ Club

Here you go stan, keep your big block and put EFI on it.

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/pts/2596852186.html

Lost in the 60s · President

67ss wrote:
Here you go stan, keep your big block and put EFI on it.

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/pts/2596852186.html

I wonder if that's Matt ??

SShink · 3K+ Club

67ss wrote:
Here you go stan, keep your big block and put EFI on it.

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/pts/2596852186.html

Thanks Chris P.

Did you guys notice why he's selling it? 'Got into LS motors'!

Chris R · 2K+ Club

With everything accept for what appears to be the injectors. Thats a pretty good deal. Although injectors arent cheap. If I were deep into the restoration of my 69SS. I would be all over it for that price.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Interesting thread on TC about LS engines. It ends up going into an 'LS vs. BBC' debate for performance and mileage...

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=362399&highlight=year+one+wheels

-- Edited by SShink on Friday 14th of October 2011 09:23:46 PM

Lost in the 60s · President

Hard to even compare the 2. Computer controlled, fuel injected engines are light years ahead of the old stuff. The average guy can get over 500 hp out of a 350 cubic inch engine and couple it with an overdrive trans to deliver high teens and low twenties for mileage. There's no way a carburated, big inch engine is going to get that kind of mileage.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Hard to even compare the 2. Computer controlled, fuel injected engines are light years ahead of the old stuff. The average guy can get over 500 hp out of a 350 cubic inch engine and couple it with an overdrive trans to deliver high teens and low twenties for mileage. There's no way a carburated, big inch engine is going to get that kind of mileage.

Hey, I got 17.5 on our last cruise, but we did stay at 55 or below.

Yep, those new engines are really sweet. When see what some of club members have done under the hood, how nice they idle and run out, not to mention they look awesome. I suffer from............engine envy.

-- Edited by dashboard on Saturday 15th of October 2011 07:05:26 AM