Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

Lost in the 60s · President

ROCK FALLS Oct 2 !!!

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

Definitely targeting Oct for some testing with the new front suspension.. Hopefully Ill have it ready by the 2nd.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Hope the weather is good and I have a chance to see the car run.

Scott Parkhurst · Super Poster

Ooooh- I might go too. I'm anxious to try the nitrous on the strip and see what it'll do!

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

Sounds like a plan. Trying to convince Mustang owning friends to go.

Winston Wolf · Member

Weather looks good. I will be there.

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

Triple wammy.. Im sick, I have a wedding on the 1st , and the car isnt put together.. have fun guys we want a full report.

Lost in the 60s · President

Tony Hoffer wrote:
Triple wammy.. Im sick, I have a wedding on the 1st , and the car isnt put together.. have fun guys we want a full report.
That STINKS....sorry to hear all that, Tony...

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

who all is planning on going to Rock Falls Oct 2nd ? I see Tony will not make it : (
looks like:
Winston
Mitch
Jim D
Jim L ?
Scott ?

SteveS · Super Poster

If all goes well with the cruise, I'm planning on Rock Falls!

Lost in the 60s · President

Put 110 miles on the Chevelle today on a cruise and now it's all loaded on a trailer and ready to go at 6:00am. Hope to see some of you tomorrow. Is anyone bringing the canopy ?

67ss · 1K+ Club

Have fun and I want to see some time slips posted. Next year I will be there to flog on my on stuff.

Lost in the 60s · President

67ss wrote:
Have fun and I want to see some time slips posted. Next year I will be there to flog on my own stuff.
Aren't you coming with Steve ?

Lost in the 60s · President

That was a total waste of time and money. Carb kept running out of fuel at half track. Checked the float levels and the rear bowl was dry. Any amount of adjustment of the needle to allow gas resulted in massive overflow. Spent 3 HOURS screwing with it and tried 2 other needles I borrowed from other racers with the same result. Apparently the electric fuel pump provides too much pressure and there is no regulator in the line. The front needle is set to just let enough gas seep in to run the engine. What a PITA. EVERYTHING the previous owner did to this car was a complete hack and I will have removed or modified it all to make it right.

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

This is the Chevelle right? ....not the Camaro...

Lost in the 60s · President

Yep. I was really looking forward to racing a 4 speed again too. It fell flat on it's face at 4800 in second and limped the rest of the distance while recovering fuel. Then it ran great back to the pits... I wasn't expecting anything great for times but 17.5 at 72 mph was rather embarrassing.

I need the slicks I got to launch with the 4 speed too. The motor doesn't make a lot of hp but it has plenty of midrange torque. Lots of traction issues there with the cold this morning.

Lots of cars this time. Some left over from yesterday that stayed all night. Quite a few running in the 10's.

I met Steve S from Fountain and Jim from Pine Island. Justin/Jason ? (Winston Wolf) was there too but I didn't talk with him. Kinda surprised no one else from the club showed up.

Probably won't go back this year. Guess I have plenty of time to get the running issues worked out and the slicks mounted.

You still gonna try to get yours together and run it this year ?

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

Ive given up for 2011.. ten days of antibiotics and Im still not well... Got no ambition at all... So Im going to set up a line lock and some other things before I bleed the brakes again... seems much more doable with a completion date of March 31 2012 ..LOL

Lost in the 60s · President

Sorry to hear that, Tony. Hope you start feeling better soon.

On a different subject, the slicks I got were never retained with screws or had tubes in them. Should I be purchasing tubes to let the pressure down to bite better ? The guy I got them from said they didn't stick well. Might be because they had too much air to hold them inflated ? They are M&H race slicks, not street slicks.

-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Sunday 2nd of October 2011 04:58:08 PM

Bungy L-76 · Active Member

Sounds to me like a good excuse to pitch that Holley and get yourself an AFB.

-- Edited by Bungy L-76 on Sunday 2nd of October 2011 07:06:19 PM

Lost in the 60s · President

Bungy L-76 wrote:
Sounds to me like a good excuse to pitch that Holley and get yourself an AFB.

-- Edited by Bungy L-76 on Sunday 2nd of October 2011 07:06:19 PM
I might go for an Edelbrock version of a Carter but I'd rather pour gas in the intake from a can before I'd have anything to do with an AFB again. I HATED those carbs in the 70's...

-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Sunday 2nd of October 2011 07:11:24 PM

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

What sized slicks? Ive never run tubes or rim screws in mine.. But I dont go below 11 lbs ever either.

Lost in the 60s · President

Tony Hoffer wrote:
What sized slicks? Ive never run tubes or rim screws in mine.. But I dont go below 11 lbs ever either.
Cool !! If yours didn't spin on the wheel when you pulled the front end up, I can't imagine I would either. They are 8.5x28x15. PO had around 25-28 psi in them. With 3.31 gears, I don't see going under 11 lbs.

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

Mitch, I would look into a PROFORM carb too if you want to race and have a good street manors too. I hear good things about them. They make a Hottrodder carb based off a Holley and I do not think they are to spendy. Is you want to stay stock Holley 3310 there is a good carb guy "Carb Shop" I think it is in St.Paul Pat can help you with your #3310 if you do not want to monkey with it (PM me if you want his contact info). 3310 is a good carb especially for the street it is adual feed vac senconadary not a DP. If you hunt around you can find another metering block for the scondary side and have more tunablity. First, thing I would look at is if you have electric pump is . I would find out what you have for feul pressire get a regulater and put in a return. The carb may have had to high of pressure over time and it hosed it up. Perhaps he had issues with the high pressure and screwed the seat down to far closing it up and when you opened it up just a little more it would flood not having the normal adjustability you need. I think 6-7# is more then enough for a Holley. When Pat rebuilt mine I told him I want to run 8# will and I run 7-7.25lb. the return is important as it keeps it constant and the pump will be quiet and run better some say it will last longer.

If you have slicks and want to run them seriously consider screw down valve stems and screw down the tire to the wheel if running tubes.

-- Edited by Bowtieman427 on Sunday 2nd of October 2011 10:32:08 PM

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

WHAT A DAY of UPS and DOWNS

First Hwy 60 was closed had to detour to Lake City and was late meeting Steve in Wabasha. He waited for me and we got the track late. We get to the track one of my safety chains was broke in 2 and Steve LMK my right trailer lights not working. Steve made 2 passes slipping real bad and I brought my BFG drag radials and I convinced him that this would be a good time to try them out hoping he could get some good hook up off the line. He was game and starting putting them on come to find out the spacing was off and while trying to get it on one of his wheel studs got strippped : ( it was horrible. I felt so bad, I geuss the spacing for some strange reason is different on his car we both have 72s but on his car the wheel was hitting the caliper. I go to make a pass and line lock horn bypass realay is not working right. Mitch had carb issues. I never ran in the race.

Times 11.61, 11.5, 11.3, 10.99, then 11.2 . When I ran the 11.2 I was trying to take it easy to get back to 11.5s. Luckily they did not kick me off I have no cage in my car and running below 11.5. I was running the wheels and tires I got from Craig M/T drag raidails which I think work better then the BFGs I should have switch to see since there were not fitting on Steve's car. I set the pressure down to 18# on the M/T rears and I was spinning pretty good off the line, but was hitting it harder then I did in June, still getting use to them and the reaction of the car getting better each run. We were getting ready to race in the brackets and Crew Cheif JJ did a check of the car and noticed the passenger rear tire was almost completly flat. The valve stem got loose for some reason and was leaking air. I pushed it back in and it held air but did not want to chance it. I had my BFG drag radials and was considering throwing them well this would be a good time to compare, but I think JJ was a little tired and wanted to go. We decided to load up and I convined him to watched some of the races and hang out with Jim from Lake City. It was great seeing Jim and was nice he came to hang out and enjoy racing.

I am still in shock we broke 11 with 10.99 @ 125MPH our second time to the show. Car was running real well and for that alone I would consider it a great day.

Some guys were showing me screw in styles but they were all running slicks with tubes. . I have tubless street DOT drag radials. Any ideas on good valve stems that do not come out for a tubless setup ?

Lost in the 60s · President

No new carb in the budget here. I'm reasonably certain the problem is the unregulated fuel pressure. I ordered a regulator with new feedline and pressure gauge yesterday from Streetside Auto. They will be here this week.

Pat at the Carb Shop is very part time. I've been over there a few times trying to buy parts and get help and he's never around. I've tried calling and always get voicemail.

I will start with the regulator, since I need one with whatever carb I have and work from there. I have another identical 3310-4 on the shelf for parts, if I need them.

I made 2 passes, running out of fuel at half track on both. Since I wasn't able to overcome the issue, I loaded up and left around 12:30. There's always plenty of work to do around the yard...

SteveS · Super Poster

Like Jim said, my day was short, but now that I've been down the track, I'm ready to go again. I only got two runs in, and my car was consistantly slow. First pass I spun the tires, lifted, got on it again, spun the tires again. Second pass I took off 1/2 throttle then got on it a little further down which helped the spinning, but end with the same result.

1st pass 2nd pass

60' 2.634 2.457

1/4 13.777 13.411

mph 109.79 109.89

Thanks to Jim for offering his spare set of drag radials, I would have liked to give them a try, but they wouldn't clear my rear disk calipers. I had one lug nut come off kind of hard and when his rims didn't clear my caliper, it stripped when I took it off again. So that was the end of my day.

Ok, after 5 edits failing to get the title with the picture, the bottom is a video of Jims 10.99 pass (sorry for the poor quality, cheap flip video camera)

[video=]

-- Edited by SteveS on Monday 3rd of October 2011 06:33:51 AM

-- Edited by SteveS on Monday 3rd of October 2011 06:36:01 AM

-- Edited by SteveS on Monday 3rd of October 2011 06:37:48 AM

-- Edited by SteveS on Monday 3rd of October 2011 06:40:09 AM

-- Edited by SteveS on Monday 3rd of October 2011 06:43:25 AM

67ss · 1K+ Club

I don't get the logic here. If you pump was producing to much pressure and needed a regulator it would have been blowing past the needle and seats dumping fuel all over. If the back bowl was going empty it sounds more to me like your electric pump is weak or it is having a hard timing pulling fuel from the tank. With everything else being messed up on this car I wonder if oyu should look inside the tank to see if it is all rusty or if the suck is plugged up.

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

Steve, THANK YOU FOR LOADING THE PICTURES and the videos !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can not wait to show JJ.
I hope that stud was not totally wrecked and a die will fix it.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

67ss wrote:
I don't get the logic here. If you pump was producing to much pressure and needed a regulator it would have been blowing past the needle and seats dumping fuel all over. If the back bowl was going empty it sounds more to me like your electric pump is weak or it is having a hard timing pulling fuel from the tank. With everything else being messed up on this car I wonder if oyu should look inside the tank to see if it is all rusty or if the suck is plugged up.

Thats what I was thinking as well. I had an electric pump on my 66 when I first got it a long time ago and it worked fine for the first few years then started giving me trouble. It was far easier and for me just made more sense to just go back to a good mechanical pump and never had much of a problem sense. Other then an aftermarket pump leaking some oil. Which I replaced with a different brand and it was fixed. But I never had any pressure problems since I switched back to the mechanical pump again after that. Thats what worked for me. Its not to say it would work for you Mitch but it might be the most affordable option.

John D · 2K+ Club

Yeah... the P's & Q's aren't lining up here... I'm going with Chris P here and trending towards a "supply/suction-side" problem - demand but no supply. It doesn't sound like a pressure issue, but a VOLUME issue. Remember the KISS principle - Keep It Simple... Stupid.

I'm betting on a collapsed or clogged in-tank filter sock. (it's good enough for around town, but won't allow high-demand flow-through). Then there's the ethanol issue and resulting arteriosclerosis of the rubber parts...

The 3310 is a die-hard/dumb as a hammer proven carb... I've run 'em for eons as well, and they're simple. Not insulting your mech ability, but I'll assume you've checked for "sinker" floats and have the proper (fuel dribble out the sight-plug) float level settings?

SShink · 3K+ Club

SteveS wrote:
Like Jim said, my day was short, but now that I've been down the track, I'm ready to go again. I only got two runs in, and my car was consistantly slow. First pass I spun the tires, lifted, got on it again, spun the tires again. Second pass I took off 1/2 throttle then got on it a little further down which helped the spinning, but end with the same result.
1st pass 2nd pass
60' 2.634 2.457
1/4 13.777 13.411
mph 109.79 109.89
Thanks to Jim for offering his spare set of drag radials, I would have liked to give them a try, but they wouldn't clear my rear disk calipers. I had one lug nut come off kind of hard and when his rims didn't clear my caliper, it stripped when I took it off again. So that was the end of my day.

Steve, that's VERY respectable to me especially without any traction!

Like I told you Sat., when I was following you on the cruise and you nailed it going 40 mph and broke the tires, that LS sounded NASTY mean!

I'm sure when you get traction you'll be under 12 seconds.

Jim-Congrat's on the sub 11! That's AWESOME!

-- Edited by SShink on Monday 3rd of October 2011 06:48:20 PM

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Almost 110mph Steve, you'll be low 12s easily if you can hook it up.

Lost in the 60s · President

John D wrote:
Yeah... the P's & Q's aren't lining up here... I'm going with Chris P here and trending towards a "supply/suction-side" problem - demand but no supply. It doesn't sound like a pressure issue, but a VOLUME issue. Remember the KISS principle - Keep It Simple... Stupid.

I'm betting on a collapsed or clogged in-tank filter sock. (it's good enough for around town, but won't allow high-demand flow-through). Then there's the ethanol issue and resulting arteriosclerosis of the rubber parts...

The 3310 is a die-hard/dumb as a hammer proven carb... I've run 'em for eons as well, and they're simple. Not insulting your mech ability, but I'll assume you've checked for "sinker" floats and have the proper (fuel dribble out the sight-plug) float level settings?
"Checked the float levels and the rear bowl was dry. Any amount of adjustment of the needle to allow gas resulted in massive overflow." Quote from my initial post. The pump will empty the tank thru the sight plug hole in minutes. The rear needle had been screwed down tight to shut off the flow completely and the front was set to open ever so slightly as to allow a dribble into the bowl. I tried to move the front needle setting and it too had massive over flow. I was able to get it back where it was but I could never find the magic hair adjustment on the rear for a dribble. I even tried to set the rear to a minimum flow and put the sight plug back in and the gas nearly sprayed out the vent tube. Not a supply issue at all.
Switching to a mechanical pump is not an option. It's a Gen V block and has NO provision for a pump.

-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Monday 3rd of October 2011 07:14:13 PM

John D · 2K+ Club

Revise all of the below - didn't realize you weren't running a mech/engine pump.

This in mind, you need a constant 7 psi... then the below.

Ok, then it sounds like shot floats, or a combo of: Chinese repops, bad/eroded Viton coated needles, or non-genuine HOLLEY needle & seats, or sinker float assemblies.

The thing is designed to work within a range of 6 to 10 psi of fuel pressure, non-regulated (meaning PULSE, PULSE, PULSE from the pump)... There shouldn't be what you describe: An "all or nothing" adjustment range. There isn't (or should be) a "magic blonde hair thickness" adjustment range.

Pull the bowls and verify that the needles are HANGING from the little hooks with free play, and are totally free to float/knock around around inside the seat bores (until the float pressures them to seat). There should be a bit of play when you lift the float until the needle moves. Also, you can blow (mouth on the inlet) 5 - 6 psi pressure against the needle/seat assy. and move the float to regulate & check.

Buy gennie Holley parts.

-- Edited by John D on Monday 3rd of October 2011 07:27:42 PM

Lost in the 60s · President

I had the back bowl off 6 times on Sunday. The needle had been cranked down so hard, it bent the float arm. No crud in the bowl and once I moved the needle up, the float moved freely and was not leaking. I removed the float and bent the arm back straight. Tried 2 different Holley needle assemblies from "Big Block Shawn" and they had the same result. Too much gas unless I turned them down all the way and I wasn't going to damage his needles and bend the arm to shut it off again. I put my needle back in and tightened it enough to get the car back on the trailer. I don't know what pump is on the car....I didn't pay much attention to it while I was doing all the resto work. I have a regulator and gauge assembly coming and once they are installed, I will know where I'm at with pressure. I will still need to replace the rear needle assembly, as I believe it is damaged from over tightening but that will wait until I get the pressure down. I have another 3310 here that I can take parts off of too.

67ss · 1K+ Club

Oh I also did not understand that the needle and seats were down to close off any flow. So basically you were running a 2 barrel 454. Now it makes sense on the regulator. Well it will be bigger and better next year with the other heads and bigger cam.

bowtie · Secretary

Mitch
If it were me, here's how that would run (with help from Chris P):

Carb is acting up-needs rebuild.
(4160 series carb) Since I need adjustable secondaries, maybe also do an E85 conversion?
Didn't like carb anyway. For the conversion dollars, maybe just look for a better one.
Well, it wouldn't be that hard to convert it to a throttle body on that manifold. Found and bought a used Holley TBI from a 454.
Jumped off the deep end, traded that TBI for a TPI throttle body off a Typhoon, bought a used Holley Stealth Ram intake and rail kit off Ebay
Bought all new fuel suppy lines, fuel tank, sendeing unit, sump, pump, filters, and return lines, distributor, ebay injectors, EFI chip, Chris converted a wiring harness and ECM to work.
Removed the tank to find old fuel sender pickup tube was bent.

Maybe it was worth it because I found the build sheet???

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

Lost in the 60s wrote:
No new carb in the budget here. I'm reasonably certain the problem is the unregulated fuel pressure. I ordered a regulator with new feedline and pressure gauge yesterday from Streetside Auto. They will be here this week.

That should fix it... Holleys are simple carbs and will almost always outrun an AFB based carb... 7 psi max and when you are done adjusting take the gauge off and plug the hole.. Not a fan of underhood gauges.. too many burndowns from leaks.

Winston Wolf · Member

That Chevelle of Jim's is fast, with slicks on it will be mid 10's no doubt.

I would definitely screw slicks to the rim. I've seen them spin and rip the valve stems out of the tubes. This was on a 10.80 pass.

Here is a video of me racing my cousin, a great time.

-- Edited by Winston Wolf on Tuesday 4th of October 2011 09:21:07 AM

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

WOW Wolf that was a close race AWSOME. So it the grudge settled : ) Perhaps you guys will have to do it again a few more times. Can not wait till this winter is over and it has not even began.

Scott Parkhurst · Super Poster

No doubt!

Cool thread- I dig these videos.

Lost in the 60s · President

Tony Hoffer wrote:
Lost in the 60s wrote:
No new carb in the budget here. I'm reasonably certain the problem is the unregulated fuel pressure. I ordered a regulator with new feedline and pressure gauge yesterday from Streetside Auto. They will be here this week.

That should fix it... Holleys are simple carbs and will almost always outrun an AFB based carb... 7 psi max and when you are done adjusting take the gauge off and plug the hole.. Not a fan of underhood gauges.. too many burndowns from leaks.
Hadn't thought about the gauge leaking...good point to remember. The gauge is a liquid filled.
Speaking of burndowns, when I couldn't get the fuel to quit running out of the sight hole, i ran around to shut the engine off and the whole time I was thinking "just one spark or gas igniting on the headers and all my work will be gone"... I have 2 10lb extinguishers in my shop. I will try to remember to take one with to the track next time.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

bowtie wrote:
Mitch
If it were me, here's how that would run (with help from Chris P):

Carb is acting up-needs rebuild.
(4160 series carb) Since I need adjustable secondaries, maybe also do an E85 conversion?
Didn't like carb anyway. For the conversion dollars, maybe just look for a better one.
Well, it wouldn't be that hard to convert it to a throttle body on that manifold. Found and bought a used Holley TBI from a 454.
Jumped off the deep end, traded that TBI for a TPI throttle body off a Typhoon, bought a used Holley Stealth Ram intake and rail kit off Ebay
Bought all new fuel suppy lines, fuel tank, sendeing unit, sump, pump, filters, and return lines, distributor, ebay injectors, EFI chip, Chris converted a wiring harness and ECM to work.
Removed the tank to find old fuel sender pickup tube was bent.

Maybe it was worth it because I found the build sheet???

I agree with Bryan. I didnt realize you have a newer block without a fuel pump provision. EFI was my first thought too. Its an expense sure but it can be done fairly cheap. Especially if you keep away from the expensive parts.

Lost in the 60s · President

Chris R wrote:
bowtie wrote:
Mitch
If it were me, here's how that would run (with help from Chris P):

Carb is acting up-needs rebuild.
(4160 series carb) Since I need adjustable secondaries, maybe also do an E85 conversion?
Didn't like carb anyway. For the conversion dollars, maybe just look for a better one.
Well, it wouldn't be that hard to convert it to a throttle body on that manifold. Found and bought a used Holley TBI from a 454.
Jumped off the deep end, traded that TBI for a TPI throttle body off a Typhoon, bought a used Holley Stealth Ram intake and rail kit off Ebay
Bought all new fuel suppy lines, fuel tank, sendeing unit, sump, pump, filters, and return lines, distributor, ebay injectors, EFI chip, Chris converted a wiring harness and ECM to work.
Removed the tank to find old fuel sender pickup tube was bent.

Maybe it was worth it because I found the build sheet???
I agree with Bryan. I didnt realize you have a newer block without a fuel pump provision. EFI was my first thought too. Its an expense sure but it can be done fairly cheap. Especially if you keep away from the expensive parts.
No EFI here. I'm not into computers. This engine is probably temporary, as I have a '69 396 I can rebuild and install, OR my LS5 454.