Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

69SSConv · Active Member

Looking for your opinion?

Enganeer · Mega Poster

I think the rake of the car is what is throwing you off. The front typically is lower but here it looks higher than the rear.

You could play around with springs on front and rear to change the rake, perhaps drop the front so the gap is not as larger in the wheel well.

Jon H · 1K+ Club

I agree with John, drop the front or lift the rear, preferably lift the rear.

69SSConv · Active Member

Maybe I should go with wheels like this?

Lost in the 60s · President

Wow, I assumed there was no engine in it for that pic.

Yeah, drop the front. Hotchkiss has 1, 1.5, and 2" drop springs available. I put 1.5" drop springs in the front of my Camaro because it was too high and I like the stance now with a slightly nose down rake. Didn't hurt the ride at all and actually firmed up the cornering...

SShink · 3K+ Club

I'm with Mitch. I like about an inch gap between the top of the front tire and the bottom of the fender. I've used the Hotchkiss springs, and they work great.

I have a similar dilemma in that I figured out somebody used SBC springs with my BBC and added spacers to raise it. Now I have to get new springs. Arrrrrgh.

In the past I have bought stock springs and cut out a half or a full coil to lower it and stiffen up the springs. Only because the springs are half the price of Hotchkiss this way. I'm going to save up for the Hotchkiss springs and do it right this time.

If you want it to be 1980 again... you can leave the front springs as is and install air shocks for that 'jackrabbit' look but it will handle like a slug!

It also looks like the rears might be weak since it does sit low?

SShink · 3K+ Club

69SSConv wrote:
Maybe I should go with wheels like this?

Loren if you do that you will be permanently in the CAC because we will personally remove the rims and put your car up on blocks until you come to your senses!

Chris R · 2K+ Club

A new set of lower springs for the front and you should be good to go. I also use a comparible size tire that you have. But 235 on front and 245 on back.

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

Jumping to a 70 275 on the rear will bring the back up and front down and fill the rear wheel well out. It is a very tall and wide tire so you will give up on sharp corners with sidewall flex.

69SSConv · Active Member

No worry's on the air shocks,not putting those on. I think I will order the hotchkis springs and give those a try. Thanks for the feedback, I will be a lot happier with the look if I bring the front down a bit. The rear springs are new, not sure if I am going do anything with those right away? We will see how it looks after dropping the front.

Lost in the 60s · President

Did you have the front control arms rebushed lately ?

69SSConv · Active Member

Yes, everything was rebuilt.

Lost in the 60s · President

If the control arms were tightened with the weight off, that could be why the front is high. The arms need to have full weight on when the bolts are tightened.

69SSConv · Active Member

I did install them without the motor installed? Should I loosen them and re-torque them?

Enganeer · Mega Poster

yes

dashboard · 2K+ Club

I say wait till you put the top up and take another pix, it will look different. Then make adjustments if you think there needed.

Lost in the 60s · President

69SSConv wrote:
I did install them without the motor installed? Should I loosen them and re-torque them?

Absolutely...loosen all 4 on each side and bounce the car a few times to settle it and see what that does for the stance.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

If the springs are new. It takes some road mileage to get them to settle.

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

What springs are in it now ?
You may be able to cut them to get get yoru desired ride hieght. I am saving front end for next year researching a lot and there is a ton of aftermarket stuff out there & many have pretty high front spring rates if that is what you are after. Many have been happy with the Eibeck kit also, BMR, etc. How are you planning to going to drive the car ? Mostly street ? are you going mostly stock original ride and parts ? The aftermarket springs are pretty firm in the front. For a more origianl and reasonable spring look into Moog springs they are pretty much OEM and make springs for many companys. They have spring rates and other specs listed and you can calculate the ride height you desire. A lot of people go with SBC springs in BBC cars or light rate to get better ride height and luanch, while others will put in shroten springs with high spring rates to handle better in turns.

Mitch, I got my new rear end in , rear upper & lower arms and shocks in. I tighten all down. Should I loosen and re tightend everything down after engine and tranny go in? The Strange rear looks very cool.

What Mitch said could very well be what is going on.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Bowtieman427 wrote:
What springs are in it now ?
You may be able to cut them to get get yoru desired ride hieght. I am saving front end for next year researching a lot and there is a ton of aftermarket stuff out there & many have pretty high front spring rates if that is what you are after. Many have been happy with the Eibeck kit also, BMR, etc. How are you planning to going to drive the car ? Mostly street ? are you going mostly stock original ride and parts ? The aftermarket springs are pretty firm in the front. For a more origianl and reasonable spring look into Moog springs they are pretty much OEM and make springs for many companys. They have spring rates and other specs listed and you can calculate the ride height you desire. A lot of people go with SBC springs in BBC cars or light rate to get better ride height and luanch, while others will put in shroten springs with high spring rates to handle better in turns.

Mitch, I got my new rear end in , rear upper & lower arms and shocks in. I tighten all down. Should I loosen and re tightend everything down after engine and tranny go in? The Strange rear looks very cool.

What Mitch said could very well be what is going on.

Yes, those parts should always be tightened when the drivetrain is in the car.

Lost in the 60s · President

Bowtieman427 wrote:
What springs are in it now ?
You may be able to cut them to get get yoru desired ride hieght. I am saving front end for next year researching a lot and there is a ton of aftermarket stuff out there & many have pretty high front spring rates if that is what you are after. Many have been happy with the Eibeck kit also, BMR, etc. How are you planning to going to drive the car ? Mostly street ? are you going mostly stock original ride and parts ? The aftermarket springs are pretty firm in the front. For a more origianl and reasonable spring look into Moog springs they are pretty much OEM and make springs for many companys. They have spring rates and other specs listed and you can calculate the ride height you desire. A lot of people go with SBC springs in BBC cars or light rate to get better ride height and luanch, while others will put in shroten springs with high spring rates to handle better in turns.

Mitch, I got my new rear end in , rear upper & lower arms and shocks in. I tighten all down. Should I loosen and re tightend everything down after engine and tranny go in? The Strange rear looks very cool.

What Mitch said could very well be what is going on.
I'm betting you have all urethane bushings and they will move after tightening but it wouldn't hurt to just loosen the bolts again after full assembly and let it settle to ride height.
Rubber bushings are what need to be tightened with full weight.

69SSConv · Active Member

I stayed with rubber bushings, so I sounds like I need to loosen, let settle and the re torque.

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

Have the Hotchkiss 500LB springs in the front of my car.. still had to cut 1/3 of a coil off with a cutoff wheel to get them where I liked it. They are coming out this week..

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Rubber has more give then if you had eurothane bushings. Its especially noticeable if you use eurothane bushings on the upper eyelets of the rearend housing where they need to pivot and have no flex or very little at all for example.

Plus they would sit in an unnatural position and be twisted the entire time once all the weight is on them and wouldnt last as long. Another reason why it makes no sense to have your car raised up off its wheels when its in storage.

Lost in the 60s · President

69SSConv wrote:
I stayed with rubber bushings, so I sounds like I need to loosen, let settle and the re torque.

69SSConv · Active Member

In preperation for making the necessary adjustments to bring the front down. When cutting springs is it best to go a full coil, or half coil or simply by free-length measurment? My understanding is the ratio it 2:1, if I cut a half inch height out of the spring it will drop the front 1 inch? Am I understanding this correctly?

Derek69SS · Founding Member

The 1:2 ratio is true, but it's from the compressed height of the spring, not its free standing height.

69SSConv · Active Member

Once I adjust my springs to get the correct ride height, should I be looking for a different set of front shocks to go along with it? What I have is just stock replacement shocks, (monroe?, I can't remember what I put in there). I do have a set of Doetsch shocks I picked up from Scott P. when I purchased the Hotchkiss upper and lower control arms for the rear with sway bar. Would those be a better choice?

Derek69SS · Founding Member

If the springs are stock spring rate, the stock type shocks should be fine. The rate won't change much just from cutting coils... now if you change to a stiffer lowering spring, then you need to be concerned with a shock that's valved for stiffer rate springs. I don't know anything about Doetsch shocks, maybe Scott would know what rates they're valved for.

69SSConv · Active Member

I believe they are adjustable? They can be 60/40, 80/20, or 90/10. If I go that route what ratio should they be set to?

-- Edited by 69SSConv on Monday 11th of April 2011 03:41:04 PM

Lost in the 60s · President

69SSConv wrote:
In preperation for making the necessary adjustments to bring the front down. When cutting springs is it best to go a full coil, or half coil or simply by free-length measurment? My understanding is the ratio it 2:1, if I cut a half inch height out of the spring it will drop the front 1 inch? Am I understanding this correctly?
I would strongly recommend you do the loosen and bounce first before you decide to cut the springs. It may be acceptable as is.
The springs sit in a "pocket" in both the upper and lower arms and cutting anything other than a full coil will leave it misaligned with the pocket. I know people cut just a half coil, but you need to make sure one end is clocked properly. The left front coil on my '66 wasn't properly clocked and under compression moved sideways enough to wear thru the shock casing and let the gas and oil leak out...

69SSConv · Active Member

Brought the car home last night about 11 pm. Quickly realized by headlights are not aligned correctly, was a little difficult once I got away from the street lights. The interior and top are done! Looks great. Now onto the front springs, I loosened the lower control arm bolts and bounced the suspension a few times and didn't get much change? Upon further investigation I noticed that I did not have the springs clocked correctly for the end of the spring to sit in the pocket correctly. If I understand correctly, the end of the coil should be positioned between the two drain holes in the lower control arm. Is that correct? Looking at that it should immediately bring it down at least an inch or better.

-- Edited by 69SSConv on Tuesday 19th of April 2011 09:01:02 AM

Lost in the 60s · President

69SSConv wrote:
Brought the car home last night about 11 pm. Quickly realized by headlights are not aligned correctly, was a little difficult once I got away from the street lights. The interior and top are done! Looks great. Now onto the front springs, I loosened the lower control arm bolts and bounced the suspension a few times and didn't get much change? Upon further investigation I noticed that I did not have the springs clocked correctly for the end of the spring to sit in the pocket correctly. If I understand correctly, the end of the coil should be positioned between the two drain holes in the lower control arm. Is that correct? Looking at that it should immediately bring it down at least an inch or better.

-- Edited by 69SSConv on Tuesday 19th of April 2011 09:01:02 AM

Yup, you can see the low spot of the pocket for the end of the spring to sit in. You need to loosen the upper shaft bolts at the bushings too at the same time as the lowers.

Bummer about the spring. You're gonna have to remove the shock and drop the lower ball joint to relieve the pressure on the spring enough to rotate it.

Love to see pics of the interior. Maybe the sun will come out for a while on Thursday.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

If your driveway is flat and level. Park the car in front about 15 feet from the garage door and adjust your headlights.

69SSConv · Active Member

Thank you Chris, yes my driveway is flat/level. Question is what should the proper adjustment be? Is there a certain height the beams should be at X distance? Not sure where to find the headlight alignment spec's, other than going by what looks right? Chassis Service manual have this? I have all the manuals for 69, just haven't look for this?

-- Edited by 69SSConv on Tuesday 19th of April 2011 02:09:50 PM

Lost in the 60s · President

69SSConv wrote:
Thank you Chris, yes my driveway is flat/level. Question is what should the proper adjustment be? Is there a certain height the beams should be at X distance? Not sure where to find the headlight alignment spec's, other than going by what looks right? Chassis Service manual have this? I have all the manuals for 69, just haven't look for this?
-- Edited by 69SSConv on Tuesday 19th of April 2011 02:09:50 PM
The service manual will most likely tell you how to use the alignment tool you don't have....
I take mine out on a flat, lonely road and get the low beams to hit the blacktop about 75 ft out with the left one slightly turned to the right to avoid blinding oncoming drivers. The right side I try to get as straight inline with the car as possible. If you make cardboard cutouts ahead, you can tape them over the low beams to adjust the highs for straight and about 100 ft out.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

69SSConv wrote:
Thank you Chris, yes my driveway is flat/level. Question is what should the proper adjustment be? Is there a certain height the beams should be at X distance? Not sure where to find the headlight alignment spec's, other than going by what looks right? Chassis Service manual have this? I have all the manuals for 69, just haven't look for this?

-- Edited by 69SSConv on Tuesday 19th of April 2011 02:09:50 PM

I just use a good judgement call. You can tell from the garage door "screen" when your too high because it will be obvious that the light is high enough to blind the other drivers. You want your low beams just low enough so that doesnt happen. Your highs can be higher then that so they shine down the road much farther.

You can also take your regular driven car and park it the same way and use those lights to give you an idea on where they should roughly be.

John D · 2K+ Club

I grabbed this off the 'net awhile ago...

Very specific procedure to avoid "squirrel chasers & a-hole lights" - headlight aiming

Scott Parkhurst · Super Poster

Derek69SS wrote:
If the springs are stock spring rate, the stock type shocks should be fine. The rate won't change much just from cutting coils... now if you change to a stiffer lowering spring, then you need to be concerned with a shock that's valved for stiffer rate springs. I don't know anything about Doetsch shocks, maybe Scott would know what rates they're valved for.

Scott wishes he knew what rates they were valved for.

They're Doetsch tech's 'Street & Strip' 3-way adjustables. Soft, medium, and firm. That's all I know! They are a good quality shock- I set them at 'medium' when they were installed and left them there. They have to be removed to change the adjustment.

There's some info on them here: http://www.shocksandsuspension.com/productinfo-item-40_dc-1.htm

SShink · 3K+ Club

69SSConv wrote:
Brought the car home last night about 11 pm. Quickly realized by headlights are not aligned correctly, was a little difficult once I got away from the street lights. The interior and top are done! Looks great. Now onto the front springs, I loosened the lower control arm bolts and bounced the suspension a few times and didn't get much change? Upon further investigation I noticed that I did not have the springs clocked correctly for the end of the spring to sit in the pocket correctly. If I understand correctly, the end of the coil should be positioned between the two drain holes in the lower control arm. Is that correct? Looking at that it should immediately bring it down at least an inch or better.

-- Edited by 69SSConv on Tuesday 19th of April 2011 09:01:02 AM

Loren, any updates on adjusting the control arms and the front height? Pics required!