Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

SteveS · Super Poster

LS1 383 build

SShink · 3K+ Club

Steve that thing should scream!

How much torque do you estimate?

Is this a strip only or street/strip motor? Almost sounds too radical for the street?

67ss · 1K+ Club

If you put a few hard parts into the 4l60 it should survive. Hardened input shaft with the pressed collar, 5 pinion planetaries, and some good clutches. Granted it won't be cheap but then again what transmission is.

SteveS · Super Poster

It's supposed to be streetable with a good tune. I told the place I ordered the cam from I wanted to be able to sit at a stop light with the AC on and not have to worry about it killing. They tell me they run 11.5 compression LS1's on pump gas so I should be ok.

The 700r4 that was in my Chevelle I built with good clutches, a beast sun shell, servo's etc. But I think I might let someone who knows more than me do this one. Finish Line Transmission seem to have a good reputation, but I need to save up a little for one of those. I also need a 3600 stall to match the cam. I'm thinking about a Yank SS3600 when I get some cash together.

bowtie · Secretary

My 4L60 was all done like that but it seems a little sluggish on WOT shifts, especially 2-3. Never had 3-4 shift at WOT :) That's a priority for next year is to have the valving fixed. Like Chris said, some hard aprts inside might also need to be swapped in. We used some 4L65E planetaries for his and that helped cure his issue.

bwild70ss396 · Active Member

Wow! 600hp or so at the crank! Thats a healthy motor!

What you plan on doing for a fuel system, like the tank? What pump? You going to use something like a C5 Corvette filter/regulator combo? PN 10299146?

I am building a Ls motor also and just trying to buy smart. Mine will only make 480-500hp at the crank.

Brad

Lost in the 60s · President

SteveS wrote:

It's supposed to be streetable with a good tune. I told the place I ordered the cam from I wanted to be able to sit at a stop light with the AC on and not have to worry about it killing. They tell me they run 11.5 compression LS1's on pump gas so I should be ok.

The 700r4 that was in my Chevelle I built with good clutches, a beast sun shell, servo's etc. But I think I might let someone who knows more than me do this one. Finish Line Transmission seem to have a good reputation, but I need to save up a little for one of those. I also need a 3600 stall to match the cam. I'm thinking about a Yank SS3600 when I get some cash together.

You won't need a stall that high with the right tuner. I have a friend with a 67 Camaro that he put an LS1 in and is quite radical but it idles almost smooth at 750 rpm. It's detuned to around 3,000 and then it feels like a semi hits you from behind and you better be ready to steer, cause the ass is gonna try to pass the nose. He is running a stock T56 trans. I forget the name of the guy that tunes it, but I can get it if you are interested.

SteveS · Super Poster

That was the stall speed they suggested for my cam, but you're right it is pretty high. I think I had a 2400 stall in my 700r4. I've been looking at a few options for tuners, if you know someone who has a good reputation, I would definatley take down his name. I won't be to that point for awhile, but it's good to have options.

Lost in the 60s · President

SteveS wrote:

That was the stall speed they suggested for my cam, but you're right it is pretty high. I think I had a 2400 stall in my 700r4. I've been looking at a few options for tuners, if you know someone who has a good reputation, I would definatley take down his name. I won't be to that point for awhile, but it's good to have options.

I 'll talk to Aaron, with the Camaro, in the next couple days and get the contact info. Won't hurt to call the guy and see what he thinks he can do and get prices. I know he has 3-4 price levels, starting with a 1 time tune and going up to a "lifetime" price. Aaron has the lifetime and whenever he changes a part or wants a different power curve, he doesn't pay for the changes.

Scott Parkhurst · Super Poster

I do a lot of work with TPIS in Chaska (www.tpis.com). I can highly recommend them on the late-model LS tuning. They do really good work!

SteveS · Super Poster

Derek mentioned TPIS too. I hadn't heard of them before, but plan to check them out. I've also heard good things about wait4me performance. They will rework your harness and give you a lifetime tune for around $350. That would work ok for a mail order tune, but they are 400 miles away for dyno work.

seagrams72 · Active Member

Great build, I think your power numbers are more than achievable with that setup. Let me know if you have any questions about the swap, I am doing my 3rd LS swap (second in a chevelle) this winter.

I have been looking for a shop around the metro area for tuning that does good work and is fairly reasonable on price when tuning LS motors. I was originally thinking tpis, but I don't believe they offer a chassis dyno service and that is what I am looking for.

69SSConv · Active Member

Not sure where you are located, but I believe HiTech Mototsports in Elk River, can do what your looking for? Not sure how their pricing compares to others. My brother had a 98 Trans Am, tuned their on the chassis dyno. When the dyno is being done, others can login on the website and watch the dyno in process.

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

I'm doing mine over at R&R as he will cut me a little slack on time compared to some of the other guys. I will need to do a cam break in and all that stuff so 4 hrs will go quickly. If you have the stuff ready for an engine dyno it may be cheaper then a chassis dyno for major tweeking on the software.

bowtie · Secretary

I did mine ar R&R. got a good deal (free to me) because I was doing it for "work". Ron was patient but also efficient. At one point 67SS ran to my house and grabbed the dizzy out of my old engine still in the chevelle so we had a good one to use since the borrowed one was curved too different.

SteveS · Super Poster

I'm south of Rochester, so I'll be traveling where ever I go for tuning. I checked with TPIS, they have the ability to hook mine up to their engine dyno, which would be nice to make sure there were no issues before it was in the car. They would also be be to use my computer the get rid of all the conversion stuff (vats, rear O2, egr, etc.) and tune for my bigger injectors, intake and everything else. But they charge $450 for the dyno and $475 for tuning. Add in fuel and all the small extras I'd be around $1000. I'd really love to have it broke in on a dyno and get a horsepower number, but that's a lot of cash. Not sure what I'm going to do yet.

-- Edited by SteveS on Saturday 27th of November 2010 01:19:45 PM

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

Ill second Hi Tek.. I sent another member there and he was more than happy.

seagrams72 · Active Member

I have heard good things about HiTech and was planning on taking the car there this spring.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Did you ever make a decision on where to take it Steve?

SteveS · Super Poster

I made a little more progress. The motor is complete and I got a transmission & convertor on order. I still haven't decided on a dyno/tuner, but I'm getting close to making an appointment. Here's a few progress shots.

Everybody sticks Corvette fuel Rail covers on LS motors, so I thought I'd try something a little different.

Before:
Stock Vette covers

A little body filler, some paint & vinyl:

Intake before:

After:

Done:

Next up Wiring confuse

:

-- Edited by SteveS on Monday 10th of January 2011 04:35:43 PM

John D · 2K+ Club

Very Cool !!

So, a LOT of time with an X-acto knife, or did you have a sign shop do the vinyl?

SteveS · Super Poster

Not enough patience for an x-acto knife, The FAST on the intake is a touch up paint brush, and I had a sign shop make up the decals. In fact the paint will look good under a hood 5 feet away, but look up close and you can see how much patience I have in sanding. A paint and body man I'm not.

Lost in the 60s · President

My favorite color lately........Charcoal Grey Metallic.... wink

I still haven't talked to Aaron, from the Camaro Club about the guy he has do his tuning, sorry, I will see him tomorrow night and will TRY to remember to ask.

SShink · 3K+ Club

SteveS wrote:

I made a little more progress. The motor is complete and I got a transmission & convertor on order. I still haven't decided on a dyno/tuner, but I'm getting close to making an appointment. Here's a few progress shots.

Everybody sticks Corvette fuel Rail covers on LS motors, so I thought I'd try something a little different.

Dude, that is so awesome and creative!!! Having the valve covers say 'Chevelle' instead of 'Corvette' is so old skool meets new skool! the 'LS383' just tops it off. Nice job!

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

It maybe faster and easier to just get the new Holley Self Tune Controller or Fast System. No worries about where to Dyno it then and the retweek once it is in the car, your spending $1000 right now for base tune plus the wire nightmare ahead.

IMO makes total logic at this point.

SteveS · Super Poster

When I checked in to aftermarket EFI systems the complete Fast XFI system runs around $2400, the Holley System was about $1500 for the computer and when you add in their Harness it was close to $2200. I'm hoping to save some money by reworking the harness myself. Tuning the stock computer runs from $300-$500 depending on which place you call. Dyno time seem to be $100 per hour but I think it might be money well spent in case there are any issues before it's in the car.

-- Edited by SteveS on Tuesday 11th of January 2011 1014 AM

-- Edited by SteveS on Tuesday 11th of January 2011 1040 AM

-- Edited by SteveS on Tuesday 11th of January 2011 1058 AM

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

R&R charged me $350 for 6hrs and Ron was a great help. If you do go there book on a morning that he has an open afternoon incase you have issues like I did. Getting your engine done on a weekday may actually be easier for you to book so he does not have to sit there all day on a Saturday.

-- Edited by Dave Seitz on Tuesday 11th of January 2011 0558 PM

Lost in the 60s · President

The info from Aaron. His tuner is Carl at Lancer Service in St. Paul. Phone 651-224-0267. Aaron said his rate is $250 for a single tune or $400 for a "lifetime" which means if you change cams, throttle bodies, thermostats, what ever, even if you just don't like the performance after a while, he retunes for free.

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

That sounds good

SteveS · Super Poster

Dave- What is R&R & where are they located? Was $350 for 6 hours of Dyno time? That sound like a good deal. Do you have a number or website for them?

Mitch-Thanks for the info, I will give them a call too and see what they have to offer.

SteveS · Super Poster

Maybe I found it, is this R&R?

Lost in the 60s · President

Yup, that should be it. Ron and Robin are brothers that own that business.

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

SteveS wrote:

Dave- What is R&R & where are they located? Was $350 for 6 hours of Dyno time? That sound like a good deal. Do you have a number or website for them?

Mitch-Thanks for the info, I will give them a call too and see what they have to offer.

The session is only 4hrs long for 267 or something like that, I had to pay for the extra 2 hrs I went over the session. Some shops just make you pay for the entire 4 hr block if you run over. Actually I only had a tick under 3hrs of actual dyno time for getting this tuned the other time was trying to get it running and cam breakin. That was one of the reasons we wound up there for the dyno session.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Dave Seitz wrote:

SteveS wrote:

Dave- What is R&R & where are they located? Was $350 for 6 hours of Dyno time? That sound like a good deal. Do you have a number or website for them?

Mitch-Thanks for the info, I will give them a call too and see what they have to offer.

The session is only 4hrs long for 267 or something like that, I had to pay for the extra 2 hrs I went over the session. Some shops just make you pay for the entire 4 hr block if you run over. Actually I only had a tick under 3hrs of actual dyno time for getting this tuned the other time was trying to get it running and cam breakin. That was one of the reasons we wound up there for the dyno session.

Where are they located?

67ss · 1K+ Club

Spring Lake Park. About 2 block east of the hwy 65 and 81 street intersection. There is a harley dealer ship on that corner.

bowtie · Secretary

They dyno'd my engine when it was carburated. They also did the minor head work I had done which was clean up ports, open spring seats and add screw in studs.

When Friendly was building those 509 cube 609 hp motors, R&R did all the machine work on the block and heads.

Nice guys.

SteveS · Super Poster

Since Im a glutton for punishment, along with the LS1 swap I'm also redoing the interior. Adding Procar ralley seats, and SS dash with modern gauges. I pulled the seats and carpet tonight and I think the floor looks pretty good except for some small pin holes on the passenger side. I used a wire wheel and it looks like good metal around a 2"x6" area that needs replacement. What do you think I should do to fix this? It looks like its all on the flat of the floor, so I think I could weld in a small piece of sheet metal, or should I buy a formed floor pan and cut a patch out of it so it matches better?

Also, is the paint that is on the floor now look factory? The car was Mojave Gold.

Once the floor is fixed I plan on using POR15 or similar on the floor and underside and I have sound deader to put down.

Second question, when you buy procar seats they sell brackets for an original bench seat car or a bucket seat car. I bought the bench style mounts and they have longer legs on the inboard side so they sit level now. If I weld in the factory type bucket mounts on the inside they will make the inside too tall and it will make the seats tip towards the doors. Other than welding a plate and nut under the car anyone have any ideas on a safe way to fasten them?

-- Edited by SteveS on Friday 25th of March 2011 08:52:20 AM

bowtie · Secretary

POR-15 will work perfect for that. I had a couple little dots like that too. put some tape under the car where the holes are, and paint over the inside (clean and prep it first). Those holes look small enough that the POR-15 should bridge that little gap. Look under your wiring holder on the driver's side. That's where it can also get ugly with corrosion. If that's all it is, I wouldn't weld in anything. I had a couple holes I needed filling, and decided to cover them with flashing and seam seal it in. Since you're going to POR-15 and put down dynamat or similar, nobody will see it anyway.

BTW, unless you already have it, I found it cheaper to buy the POR-15 sampler pack for $20 which has cleaner, metal prep and paint than the paint only in a quart for $40. I needed just barely more than the sampler for my entire floor firewall to rear trunk divider, which means what I have left should cover the whoel trunk. It goes a long way. Look for a writre-up in the newsletter coming out in a couple days.

Can you measure your brackets? I bought Procar 90 seats with bucket mounts and can compare the measurements. I'll see how level mine are now that you said something. I have fitted mine, but not bolted it all in (just got my POR-15 done last weekend). My car was a bench car, but the floors are the same. What they did for the seats I took out was long bolts and steel tube spacers or oversized nuts to level the seats out.

SteveS · Super Poster

I was also thinking I might be able to fill in the holes with my welder if I hold some aluminum on the back side. Thanks for tip on the POR15, what size comes in the sample pack? I'm not sure how much I will need since I plan on doing the underside also since I will have the motor, tranny, and gas tank out too. I'll measure the procar brackets tonight.

Lost in the 60s · President

That area is too big to just seal over. The instant you touch ANY of that rusty metal with a welder, it will vaporize and be gone. Using a flat sheet is up to you. It will only be seen from underneath. I MAY have a section I could cut out from an old floor here that would match the embossed ribs, but it will be a couple days before I can find it. Otherwise, you can buy a toeboard section from Auto City Classics in Isanti and not pay shipping, but it's a long drive too and gas is spendy.

SteveS · Super Poster

Would a toe board come down far enough? I was looking at pictures of them on Ground up's website and I didn't think it went down far enough, I thought I would have to get a floor pan?

Chris R · 2K+ Club

A toe board should do just fine. Ill need to be doing that on mine as well. Rusted worse in the same spot as yours.

69SSConv · Active Member

POR15 makes a POR Patch and POR Putty that may be an option as well? Not sure if anyone has used these or not?

http://www.por15.com/Putty-Fillers-and-Sealer/products/10/

PORPATCH
POR PATCH™ is, quite literally, POR-15 in a tube, and like POR-15® it dries as hard as a rock, remains flexible, and once dry is totally impervious to fuels and solvents.
PORPATCH -

Use it to:

Permanently seal seams, patch holes in steel, wood, or concrete, bond steel to plastic, wood, or concrete, fix holes in fuel tanks, can be applied right over rust or metal.

EPOXY PUTTY
POR-15 EPOXY PUTTY is so strong you can drill and tap it, yet gentle enough that you can apply it with your bare fingers.
EPOXY PUTTY

Applications:
steering wheels
plastic parts/knobs
filling rust pits & holes in steel
patching concrete
repairing tool handles
repairing woodwork
doors, hinges & latches

-- Edited by 69SSConv on Thursday 24th of February 2011 03:36:14 PM

Lost in the 60s · President

Steve, the pic you posted of the toe pan is upside down. The ridge at the top is actually where it meets the floor pan in your car. That piece is way more than you need for the patch required.

I looked at the piece I cut out of my '66 just now and it isn't good enough to use as a patch. I'll have to kick around in the snow to find the pan from my GTO and see if there is a good section in it. I can do that tomorrow and let you know.

SteveS · Super Poster

Thanks Mitch, I see it is upside down, that makes a lot more sense. Don't worry about digging through the snow for your pan, the more I look at it I think I can use a flat patch.

Brian here is the pictures of my procar brackets:

I measured from the bottom of each leg to the bottom of the bar that runs across the front of the seat. Here are the heights of the passenger side.

Outside Front : 7/8"
Outside Rear : 1 1/2"
Inside Front : 1 3/8"
Inside Rear : 1 3/4"

bowtie · Secretary

Using the same bracket:
O/F: 1"
O/R: 1-1/2"
I/F: 1-3/8"
I/R: 1-3/4"

Between the 2 front brackets: 12-1/4"
Between the 2 rear brackets: 12"

between the flats front to rear: 10-1/4"

Looks like you could use just a short piece to change that corner height?

SteveS · Super Poster

Time for an update, I made a little more progess. I welded in a small piece to fix my floor pan and since I'm switching to vintage air I welded shut all the openings I won't be needing on the firewall. I coated the inside floor and the frame and bottom of the car with POR 15.

Before:

After:

Lost in the 60s · President

Looks awesome but DUDE, you got a LONG way to go to beat that counter....

SteveS · Super Poster

It's been awhile since I posted an update. Well, I didn't beat the counter, but IT RUNS! Not terrific yet, but I did get to fire it up. I still need to work on tuning a few tables, it doesn't want to idle, but I think that's pretty normal for a cammed LS1. Now that I know there aren't any electrical issues, and no leaks I can put the rest of the front clip on, get the interior back together and work on getting the final bugs worked out.

I customized a Monte Carlo dash with some Classic instruments gauges. Since I used a quad gauge for my little gauges, I moved my bright indicator and added a check engine and shift light into the small areas. I'm putting in Procar seats and working on a custom console also.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Cool!

When can I drop mine off?