Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

gearlube · Active Member

Help! Help! Help! Got bit by Chinese parts!

Grajmahal · Active Member

Damn! I actually threw mine on the scrap pile when I did my conversion a month ago, and they're gone. I did notice this guy, though : minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/pts/4569502191.html

John

gearlube · Active Member

Nooooooo!! LOL. I emailed him. Hope he emails back. I know I can get the replacements from CPP, but I might just get another same cheap set. Need OEM

SShink · 3K+ Club

Here you go. Return the parts and buy this: Brake Link

Why don't you just call CPP on Monday and have them pay for overnight freight for replacement parts? I've heard other people have had quality problems with their stuff too.

Lost in the 60s · President

SShink wrote:
Here you go. Return the parts and buy this: Brake Link
Why don't you just call CPP on Monday and have them pay for overnight freight for replacement parts? I've heard other people have had quality problems with their stuff too.

I will NEVER, EVER buy anything from CPP again. Cheap junk and sky high shipping.

I have a hub here, if you can't find one, Tom.

gearlube · Active Member

Mitch, yes I need two drum wheel hubs. Will you sell them?

gearlube · Active Member

Mitch will you PM me your number?

gearlube · Active Member

Stan I already bought c5 conversion kit. I would be out way more money. I plan on returning yes, but would rather have OEM if possible.

Lost in the 60s · President

gearlube wrote:
Mitch, yes I need two drum wheel hubs. Will you sell them?

I thought you were looking for 1. I'll have to see if I have 2. We are going to the Fair tomorrow, so it will be mid-afternoon.

gearlube · Active Member

Guy with the complete front drum kit for a 67 just emailed. Trying to make a deal there....

gearlube · Active Member

Mitch I would like two. Now that I know one had such an issue just by pressing bolts in, I am concerned on their structural integrity as I will be using them for road racing.

Lost in the 60s · President

gearlube wrote:
Mitch I would like two. Now that I know one had such an issue just by pressing bolts in, I am concerned on their structural integrity as I will be using them for road racing.

I hear ya on not trusting the rest of the parts now too.

I hope you can make a reasonable deal in Blaine, as I just looked for the one I thought I had and didn't find it either !! I purged a lot of used parts last fall thru swap meets and scrapping stuff and it all must have gone away. Sorry...

gearlube · Active Member

I went and picked them up. Amazing small world. I know the guy. He is in the Camaro club. I pressed the old studs out and the new ones into the drum hub. Wait for it...Shocker...no cracked pot metal. I had to Dremel near the hub circle to allow the new rotor to set evenly. So issues. C5 13" 4 piston brakes are on now!! Now what to do with CPP. I guess we will have to test their customer service...

Lost in the 60s · President

gearlube wrote:
I went and picked them up. Amazing small world. I know the guy. He is in the Camaro club. I pressed the old studs out and the new ones into the drum hub. Wait for it...Shocker...no cracked pot metal. I had to Dremel near the hub circle to allow the new rotor to set evenly. So issues. C5 13" 4 piston brakes are on now!! Now what to do with CPP. I guess we will have to test their customer service...

Was the seller Jessie ??

CPP will take their crap back as long as you pay the return freight too....

Good to hear you got what you needed to move ahead.

gearlube · Active Member

Mitch. Ya it was Jessie! It was good to see him and his projects.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Too bad I missed the thread... I have at least a couple pairs of drum hubs that I'd give away for free.

They do need to be machined to fit inside the C5 rotors though.

Pushrod · Active Member

First off, I DID NOT AND DO NOT CURRENTLY have any issues with ANY part I've purchased from CPP. edit Every brake part, every suspension part in my car is CPP. I love the way my car rolls, and handles. eidt The problem with my brakes is due to a low vacuum condition (9" at idle) which will be resolved with a Bosch hydro-boost from Sweeting Performance. Please don't comment on things edit speaking for somone else. Furthermore, I bet if you were to call CPP, they would tell you how many hundreds, maybe thousands of units that were sent out, this problem has not been encountered before. I am asking PLEASE stop bashing vendors it's just not very becoming of a club forum. For all you know their watching.

-- Edited by Webmaster on Wednesday 27th of August 2014 05:32:39 AM

Chris R · 2K+ Club

edit Hell, a guy on the Team Chevelle Facebook page just last week was just showing pictures of a edit spindle he got from CPP that completely broke, only to get the runaround from them. Several other guys replied discussing various issues they have had as well with very similar problems. edit If CPP corrected that issue (or Summit or whatever), then great, im happy they were able to correct it for you and left you as a happy customer. edit I researched CPP several years back about buying front and rear brake kits and possibly a master cyl kit and got more bad reviews then good ones, from in person conversations from guys whom I seen had their products on their car at shows and from forum postings from the several car forums which I made the choice to spend my money elsewhere. Nothing personal or bashing against CPP, its just my choice. Ive been in your car several times and felt how it stops and it stops just fine so its clear they make some nice stuff.

That said, what would you do if you heard more negative things about CPP then positive if you were me and had considered making a purchase from them? Give them your money anyways after hearing all of that? If you needed a hub for your car, would you really buy a hub from them after reading what Tom here is going through with the hub he got from CPP? I would hardly call that bashing, I call that several guys giving their opinion on what they feel about their experience with CPP's products.

I dont see anyone bashing anyone here and just a club member mentioning his displeasure with the product he got from CPP and thats it. edit

-- Edited by Webmaster on Wednesday 27th of August 2014 05:27:28 AM

Webmaster · Forum Administrator

Ok guys - lets keep this civil.

I edited your posts. The only reason I didn't nuke them is that we're discussing a vendor that may have a serious quality problem with parts that involve life-safety... and people need to know.

(Keep the personal aspects off the forum and do it via PM please).

bowtie · Secretary

On an aside, how many of us post a rave about any parts we buy from a place? It's pretty rare. Most people on any online resource generally only post on the negatives of a company and/or service.

the negatives will always outnumber the positive posts on anything.

Hopefully, there was just a bad batch that came through their system or something. FWIW, I've heard good things about CPP in general and have looked at their stuff for upcoming projects.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

My friend Joe is a butcher, he is a very wise and respected man. He once told me that no mater how thinly you slice the salami there are always two sides to it. Here venders never get to tell there side.

Webmaster · Forum Administrator

As always - there's equal time & space here to praise or admonish a supplier, vendor, or service - as long as it is done in an adult, polite manner. Leave out the emotion, and post the facts.

The only reason I didn't edit/nuke this thread is that I've (personally) never have seen or heard of a hub/rotor flange fracturing while a wheel stud was being installed - whether being done on a press or by "shadetree" method (stack of washers, lugnut, and an impact). This is potentially a serious life-safety issue, and I'd like to know what the mfg. in question is doing about it, or what their resolution is.

Lets keep the "country of origin" out of the equation unless the parts are stamped or tagged as such... OK? Vendors get sub-assemblies from all over the globe, and not necessarily from a certain large Asian country.

John D · 2K+ Club

Wearing my "other hat" now...

Gearlube... What method did you use to install the longer wheel studs? Press, vise/spacers/squeeze, or "stack-O-washers" & impact?

Lost in the 60s · President

dashboard wrote:
My friend Joe is a butcher, he is a very wise and respected man. He once told me that no mater how thinly you slice the salami there are always two sides to it. Here venders never get to tell there side.

You are right and any vendor is welcome to sign up and post a reply to any thread concerning them.

I just did a search for CPP on Team Chevelle and Camaro and for all the posts about issues with their products, no sign of them around to act upon or refute any claims. Could it be they still sell enough product on their name alone and don't care about it ? No way to know, but for me the lack of involvement from a company earning a negative reputation seems to indicate a lack of concern about fixing any of the issues.

UMI and BMR are registered on Team Chevelle and actively work with people interested in their products and those with issues to resolve them. That's company involvement and customer support in the real world where people are installing and using the parts. CPP has the same opportunity to represent themselves but are not to be found....

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
You are right and any vendor is welcome to sign up and post a reply to any thread concerning them.

I’d like to agree with you on this Mitch, but then we’d both be wrong.

Hey Mitch, I just jumped over to another site and explained at length what jerk you are. I also commented on your sexual orientation, your wacky political views, poor work ethic, the dysfunctional people you hang around with and how not one of your cars will go from 0 to 60 in less then 30 seconds down a steep hill.

Of course none of this is true and you are welcome to refute every word of it. Just go find the site and repute it Mitch.

gearlube · Active Member

I went and got a 12 ton press and used it. I pressed the bolts out fine. Then I greased the bolts and pressed them in. I flipped the hub over and saw the cracks. No vendor bashing here at all. These are simple facts. I don't give a crap about the vendors side. Not blaming CPP. Just blaming Chinese crap. Yes I am bashing the 8 year old Chinese kid who made my part. I bought all my other components from CPP and never had an issue. I will continue to buy from them in the future. I decided not to call them on this because I know they will want me to send the parts back. These are not light. So it will cost me $30 to ship back to get $55 back. Not worth it to me.

-- Edited by gearlube on Wednesday 27th of August 2014 09:42:23 PM

gearlube · Active Member

Webmaster wrote:
As always - there's equal time & space here to praise or admonish a supplier, vendor, or service - as long as it is done in an adult, polite manner. Leave out the emotion, and post the facts.

The only reason I didn't edit/nuke this thread is that I've (personally) never have seen or heard of a hub/rotor flange fracturing while a wheel stud was being installed - whether being done on a press or by "shadetree" method (stack of washers, lugnut, and an impact). This is potentially a serious life-safety issue, and I'd like to know what the mfg. in question is doing about it, or what their resolution is.

Lets keep the "country of origin" out of the equation unless the parts are stamped or tagged as such... OK? Vendors get sub-assemblies from all over the globe, and not necessarily from a certain large Asian country.

John all I did was explain facts. There was no opinion here. I agree with Mitch that if a vendor wants to defend an issue they can on a public forum. I was not vendor bashing in any way. I have no issue.

i do however take issue with censorship. I never told anyone not to buy from CPP or blame them. I am sure they would take care of this. If you remove this thread because I stated facts about an issue I had and asking the club for help, then that is not fair on my side.

-- Edited by gearlube on Wednesday 27th of August 2014 09:56:44 PM

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

OK.. I wont talk about the brand new spindles that I bought that it took a thread file to get the nuts on... Ill just let others enjoy the experience in silence.

Webmaster · Forum Administrator

Didn't clarify... I wouldn't nuke the entire thread, just the posts where emotions were getting a little hot, and content not pertininant to the problem at hand.

On the other side, IMO you are doing CPP a disservice by not reporting a failure with the parts. You would hope that a supplier would work with you, and either send a pre-paid shipping label, or credit your return shipping & parts cost on receipt of the defective parts.

Let's keep this on topic, and keep us updated - we don't need any of our people's wheels falling off.

gearlube · Active Member

John good point. I will contact them this morning with pics.

SShink · 3K+ Club

FWIW, I've personally been in dirt floor Asia factories and saw the production people squatting down and hand polishing plastic injection mold tools by hand, as well as I've been to world class facilities that are superior to sites I've been to in the good ole USA. You can find bad parts all across the globe, including with U.S. suppliers (I can give you multiple current examples of supplier quality challenges we have at my current employer that are U.S. suppliers), so assuming just because it comes from Asia doesn't make it bad.

With the global outsourcing that occurred in the 80's and 90's (Yes, I was a part of that trend as a procurement professional due to financial drivers in industry), over 70% of our goods come from overseas. Just take a look at the 'Made In' label on the next thing you buy. It's a fact of the global economy.

Having said that, due to offsetting labor cost increases in Asia as their economies grow, there is now an effort of onshoring to bring production back to Mexico and sometimes the U.S. if it makes regional sense. Like most trends, companies have figured out chasing the lowest cost mfg. country is not always the best idea, but that will come around again I'm sure as people forget history.

IMO it comes down to doing the research, understanding that quality usually means a more expensive part, and get comfortable with the fact that things changed to a global economy about 30 years ago. My

-- Edited by SShink on Thursday 28th of August 2014 09:16:49 AM

bowtie · Secretary

Thanks for weigh in in Stan, I didn't want to volunteer you Stan but I knew you've seen it as a buyer.

CPP most certainly can come weigh in, but I don't think they have someone who just works the web forums to refute any claims. They would have to be actively searching for them as well which is why it's best to contact them--even if you don't want a resolution. They might not be aware of it, they might have heard about some things and want it back to investigate, maybe even paying for the freight. Good call on the, uh, calling them. At least that puts it to their attention.

on an aside, I have heard some bad things about a more local company that sells brake conversion kits and it sounds like their stuff has some quality and fitment issues. Apparently you call them and tell them, and they correct it right away. Too bad it isn't done right the first time.

gearlube · Active Member

I contacted CPP. I told him what happened. The guy was nice. He put me on hold and came back and stated this would not be covered under their warranty and I am most likely out of luck. We went back and forth some. He suggested He can escalate to MGMGT for a escalated decision. I emailed him my pics. They are below for your reference also. So I guess we shall see. He didn't seem to show any interest if it was a safety or compromised parts issues by the way.

Randy,

I also purchased among many of your other products the C5 disc rotor/caliper conversion. I had an older set of small disks that I wanted to replace. The standard stud in the drum hub including yours is a 7/16 20 1.5” long stud. This will not work and be long enough through your rotors to really fit any wheel. So I knew I had to press out the old one and press in the new 1 ¾” studs. When I press them in with a proper 12 ton unit and arbor plates, I flipped it over and was shocked to see the metal cracked all the way through! I pressed them back out to see if they could be repaired. The cracks are all the way through and they are useless. I have pressed many, many studs including ones for my oem rear axles, and never have I seen metal like this crack. I talked to some friends who work in a welding shop and they stated the metal should not have cracked like that with a stud using arbor plates and it was a cheap metal containing fillers. This was an opinion only. I would hope CPP stand behind their products quality. I have bought many parts through CPP and this has me very concerned. I would appreciate a refund and a return shipping label.

Below on the top was the original 1.5" 7/16 20 stud with a .742 knarl.

Below was the new stud 1.75" 7/16 20 stud with a .742 knarl

-- Edited by gearlube on Thursday 28th of August 2014 01:02:23 PM

-- Edited by gearlube on Thursday 28th of August 2014 01:05:56 PM

Grajmahal · Active Member

I just did a disc brake conversion with a CPP kit that I purchased through Summit last fall. The parts sat in a box all winter before I was able to get around to working on the car. While bleeding the brakes, I noticed that one of the front flex lines was leaking. Upon further inspection, I found that the fluid was coming out of the clear plastic liner that covers the braided material, meaning that I couldn't locate the exact source of the break. I called up Summit and told them about the problem. Without hesitation, they looked up the order and sent me a new line set, free of charge, overnight shipped. They also generated a call ticket for UPS to come and pick up the old one, presumably so that they could send it to the MFR for analysis. A failed brake line is a lawsuit waiting to happen - but so is a failed hub. I don't know what it says about Classic Performance, but Summit sure responded impressively.

John

gearlube · Active Member

John agreed, never had an issue with Summit. They were very helpful with my EFI issues and dealing with Quickfuel. But Quickfuel also stepped up and took care of my issues. So there you go two "Good" reviews of two companies.

I got a response from tech.

""‘This damage is not covered under warranty. It doesn’t sound like the customer used the proper tooling to press the studs out, he may have used arbor plates and a press but you have to support the area around the stud as we do here, the arbor plates allowed the iron to bend and crack as he did not support behind the stud. Any time a part is modified from its original state it voids the warranty (as in pressing out the studs). We have forged aluminum hubs which are meant for disc brakes with longer studs in stock which could have been purchased.’ ""

I am not going to argue with them. I used the same method to press out and new studs into my rear OEM axles which are 45 years old. Then the Drum Hubs I got from my friend Jessie, I pressed the old stud out and the "SAME" stud in using the same arbor plates supporting the hub and no cracks. Those are 48 years old. I don't blame CPP and will buy from them again. I as a consumer have a choice to spend more money on more expensive or cheaper stuff. However I bought their C5 kit which states that it can be used over your drum stock hubs and studs. This is just simply not true. My wheels also have a shallow hole, but still needed the longer stud.

As always we educate ourselves and live and learn. We all have come across bad parts here and there. While I am disappointed in their decision I understand it.

John D · 2K+ Club

Well at least now you (we) know.

Looking at your pics (especially #2) it would appear that the iron is just brittle - some impurities or a lower grade formula. I'm no metallurgist, but the hub/rotor should be "soft" enough to conform/meld into the knurls of the (much) harder studs. Who knows... maybe the mfg heats the hubs before pressing in the studs - that bit of expansion would allow the stud in (without cracking the casting), and when it cools there's no moving it.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

originals I believe are forgings. These are probably cast.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Derek69SS wrote:
originals I believe are forgings. These are probably cast.

Yep, these are sand cast. Take a look at the top non-machined area of the hub in the pic where the wheel bearing goes. The bumpiness on the outside is from the sand casting process.

Those cracks at the stud holes do look pressure induced since the material is deformed around the holes. Hate to say it, but I agree with CPP's assessment and root cause of the damage.

Tom, did you measure the O.D. of the knurls before installing the new ones? Were they the same diameter? If not, the combination of the oversized knurls and too much pressure could have caused the cracks IMO. Not all wheel studs are created equal, they can have different size O.D.'s.

gearlube · Active Member

Stan they are the same size knarls. .472. I used a digital measure caliper to check. It is what it is.