Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

SShink · 3K+ Club

Another spring question for Derek

Derek69SS · Founding Member

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but those are the wrong springs.

You need the pigtail on the axle end, and can run either a pigtail or ground flat type end on the frame.

I run the 11" single-pigtails

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Hyperco-Street-Stock-Rear-Spring-5-1-2-x-11,5878.html

They also have 12" single pigtails

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-5-1-2-Inch-x-12-Inch-Street-Stock-Rear-Springs,23511.html?parentDisplayId=5878

And 14" double-pigtails

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Tru-Coil-Street-Stock-Replacement-Rear-Springs,168.html?parentDisplayId=5878

I'd recommend the 12"

SShink · 3K+ Club

Derek-Since I'm starting all over, which companies do you reccommend for front/rear springs as a system? My goal is to lower the car 1" both front and back, have reasonable street manners (firmer than stock, but not too firm), with improved over stock handling.

I have a 1 1/8" stock front anti-sway bar and the stock 7/8" rear bar that I bought from you. Stock control arms (including the boxed ones I bought from you with the poly bushings. & I'll be putting the other polys in the axle ears and upper control arms)

I would like to stay with a spring 'system' if possible from Hotchkis, Global West, Eibach, etc. since I'm going to spend the $ now... Something like these? Hotchkis for big block: http://www.jegs.com/i/Hotchkis/515/1916K/10002/-1 I didn't find any other big block kits. I guess BBC cars aren't supposed to handle well?

Thoughts?

-- Edited by SShink on Monday 6th of February 2012 10:00:54 AM

jim larson · 2K+ Club

http://www.eatonsprings.com/

Have you heard about or investigated these guys?

http://www.eatonsprings.com/64-72chevelle.html

Looks like you need $'s.

/

-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 6th of February 2012 10:44:36 AM

-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 6th of February 2012 10:49:55 AM

SShink · 3K+ Club

Scott Parkhurst wrote:
Also- I have the ride height set about as low as it can go. I could easily raise it a bit if I wanted to, but I love the lowered stance. You're older than me so I know you like them higher up (LOL!)...

Wait a min.... not older by much my friend!

Here's what I'm thinking if I went QA1:

Fronts: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HAL-GE401-10550B/Application/?query=Year%7c1972%7cMake%7cCHEVROLET%7cModel%7cCHEVELLE&prefilter=1 They're adjustible in height to lower 0-3", but the firmness is not adjustable. They have the highest front end weight spec (2101-2300 front end lbs. which I think would work with the big block and AC) $340

Rears: Stock spring plus QA 1 Non-Adj. shocks: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HAL-TN801/ $75 Pr. Springs plus $180 pair shocks

All in.... $650 Ouch! I know... not that bad in the suspension parts world... but more than $125 for 4 cheap shocks, plus $150 for 4 new stock springs = $275 total for the 'cheap' route.

-- Edited by SShink on Monday 6th of February 2012 12:01:39 PM

SShink · 3K+ Club

So here's a combo that I think would work well together and fits the already blown budget:

Fronts: QA1 Coil Overs with shocks (I like the height adjustibility) $340

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HAL-GE401-10550B/Application/?query=Year%7c1972%7cMake%7cCHEVROLET%7cModel%7cCHEVELLE&prefilter=1

Rears: Global West 3/4" Lowering Springs $127 + QA1 Shocks $180 = $307

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/GLS-S-62/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HAL-TN801/

All in... $647

Derek, Scott, and other, what do you think?

-- Edited by SShink on Monday 6th of February 2012 12:48:36 PM

SShink · 3K+ Club

That's what I thought when I looked at them. John D. was over yesterday and said the same thing. Looks like I'll be CL'ing them...

What would you recommend for fronts with a bigl block and AC?

SShink · 3K+ Club

jim larson wrote:
http://www.eatonsprings.com/

Have you heard about or investigated these guys?
http://www.eatonsprings.com/64-72chevelle.html
Looks like you need $'s.

/

-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 6th of February 2012 10:44:36 AM

-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 6th of February 2012 10:49:55 AM

Thanks Jim. I hadn't heard of them. Looks like mostly stock or specific model custom stuff. I'm looking for a performance improvement spring over the stock ones that's already pre-designed as a complete spring package that will work together.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

What are you doing for shocks? Stiffer springs will require different shock valving to really be much of an improvement. The best value for proper valving with higher-rate springs are the Bilstein shocks revalved by Hotchkis.

For springs, I've heard great things about these guys www.coilsprings.com and the owner is a chevelle guy too.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Looks like they have the various variations over stock ride height., Just click the box. Wonder where all that performace stuff is make?

SShink · 3K+ Club

Derek69SS wrote:
What are you doing for shocks? Stiffer springs will require different shock valving to really be much of an improvement. The best value for proper valving with higher-rate springs are the Bilstein shocks revalved by Hotchkis.

For springs, I've heard great things about these guys www.coilsprings.com and the owner is a chevelle guy too.

You will probably send me to suspension jail for this... but I was going to use Monroe Sensa Tracs. I've had good luck with them on the street. But, if I'm holding back the spring performance by using those, I'm open to ideas.

I'll check out the references on coil springs. Thanks.

Scott Parkhurst · Super Poster

(I like the adjustable shocks from Lakeville. Being able to adjust them to suit your personal tastes is really cool, and you can tweak them at the track to get some bite and a nice, straight launch.)

Monroe Sensa-Tracs totally suck. Just sayin'...

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Derek told me his favorite shocks are KYB.

What about shocks from QA1? If you need springs and looking to buy shocks. Couldnt you just opt for coilovers and have both? Maybe thats a bit over the top for cars that arent like Dereks and Scotts.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Scott Parkhurst wrote:
Monroe Sensa-Tracs totally suck. Just sayin'...

I know.... I know...

I should take my own medicine and stay with stock parts... but I do enjoy driving a Chevelle that handles better than stock. That's one area where I usually deviate because of the huge improvements over narrow 14" bias ply tires and mono tube shocks from back in the day!

I'll look into the QA1's. I think they had an entry level coil over shock that wasn't too terrible on price.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Gotta be careful of the slippery-slope here, but you do live right by the DCTC driving course...

I'd go with something like 575/175 for spring rates. For lowering springs you need a stiffer rate to keep from bottoming out and hitting the bumpstops all the time. If you run "replacement" shocks, they'll be too weak to control the stiffer springs, so the car will be a little bit bouncy like having worn-out shocks.

And if you're doing all that, you should correct your camber curve... and then it's a shame to have all that handling ability and be held back with 15" tires, so you need to upgrade to 17" wheels. Then you can fit bigger brakes. Then you'll want to race it, so you'll need better seats...

What just happened?

SShink · 3K+ Club

Derek69SS wrote:
Gotta be careful of the slippery-slope here, but you do live right by the DCTC driving course...
I'd go with something like 575/175 for spring rates. For lowering springs you need a stiffer rate to keep from bottoming out and hitting the bumpstops all the time. If you run "replacement" shocks, they'll be too weak to control the stiffer springs, so the car will be a little bit bouncy like having worn-out shocks.
And if you're doing all that, you should correct your camber curve... and then it's a shame to have all that handling ability and be held back with 15" tires, so you need to upgrade to 17" wheels. Then you can fit bigger brakes. Then you'll want to race it, so you'll need better seats...

What just happened?

EXACTLY!!!!!!!! I just want a nice simple better than stock riding car. Is that asking too much...?

Derek69SS · Founding Member

That's all I wanted too.

Scott Parkhurst · Super Poster

It's asking too much when you want to go faster at the drags too! Adjustability opens that door...you KNOW you'll have some slicks or drag radials soon enough. You should get some adjustability back there to make the most of them and be able to tune left/right to launch hard & straight.

The front coilover deal I run still uses a stock lower arm and I use a 550 lb spring. It's fine for street driving with the shocks adjusted to their lower settings. Also- I have the ride height set about as low as it can go. I could easily raise it a bit if I wanted to, but I love the lowered stance. You're older than me so I know you like them higher up (LOL!)...

They have other springs available but the 550 was intended to be 'racy' for my SBC...it should be perfect for your BB.

The rear coil-over upgrade requires that you beef up the chassis, since all the weight will be on the shock mounts. I haven't seen the need to go there yet...

SShink · 3K+ Club

Derek69SS wrote:
Edelbrocks aren't bad... they must be clearancing them out because Edelbrock discontinued their shock line. They're a little bit under-valved for heavier rate springs, but they're way closer than any off-the-shelf replacement type shock.

I had them on Jenna's wagon, and they worked pretty well.

I hadn't heard they weren't making them anymore, but wondered due to the blow out pricing.

Posted up the Tru-Coil springs on CL: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/pts/2838436044.html

-- Edited by SShink on Monday 6th of February 2012 07:58:59 PM

SShink · 3K+ Club

Derek69SS wrote:
For springs, I've heard great things about these guys www.coilsprings.com and the owner is a chevelle guy too.

Impressive, I submitted an online quote request, and got it back in 15 min.!!! I asked for 1" lower, 25% improvment in firmness, and here's what I got back.

Hello Stan,

1972 Chevrolet Chevelle

Front – coil springs - -1.00” trim height & +30% rate increase

Pricing: $ 205.80 pr

Rear – coil springs - -1.00” trim height & +25% rate increase

Pricing: $198.60 pr

Thank you and I await your response to proceed.

Kevin

Coil Spring Specialties

69SSConv · Active Member

The springs I have in the rear of my Convert, came from Coil Spring Specialites. Great to work with, quick shipping. Little spendy but gave me exactly what I was looking for.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Those 300lb GW rear springs are too stiff IMHO.

GW has all their packages set up for no rear sway-bar, so they use really stiff springs instead... not sure why.

You'll want something around 175lb with those 550lb fronts.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Amazing how far this has gone today from having the wrong springs to spending all kinds of $$$!

So, here's plan B:

Fronts: Use the springs a member has offered me (Actually, I asked to buy them if he wasn't going to use them...) that are 1 year old and stock BBC/AC springs and buy old school crappy Monroe Sensa tracs

Rears: Buy new stock springs and use the new crappy Sensa tracs I already bought (hopefully sell the wrong Afco springs...)

All In.... $150!

ANYTHING has to be better than the current setup. The fronts are currently SBC springs with the screw in spacers in between the coils for height, and the rears have to be 20-30 years old with REALLY bad monroe mono tube shocks (already in the trash)!

The AC project is consuming most of this year's car budget, so trying to stick as close as possible to that this year. I can always upgrade the suspension later on.

Thanks for all the good ideas though.

***Disclaimer: I reserve the right to flip flop as much as I already have today as I go to the tax accountant this afternoon, and if it's better news than expected, there might be an extra $500 in the car budget!

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Wait, I was just getting ready to suggest a fire suit and racing shoes.

67ss · 1K+ Club

I feel your pain Stan, when I built my other car I opted for one of global wests whole kits for thousands of dollars. Probably could have done it cheaper but since it came with everything I wanted to upgrade I bent over and bought it.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Derek69SS wrote:
Wait, I was just getting ready to suggest a fire suit and racing shoes.

And don't forget an LS swap because everyone KNOWS a big block can't handle!

OscarZ · Treasurer

Stan sounds like you need a 2nd Chevelle for all these great project ideas!

Then when ones in CAC you will have the other to drive!

Tim H · Mega Poster

Stan are you really looking for a second car? What inside info does Oscar have? All this from an AC upgrade! I would be happy to put AC in the orange 70 and sell it to you. heck we'll even paint it blue

SShink · 3K+ Club

Tim H wrote:
Stan are you really looking for a second car? What inside info does Oscar have? All this from an AC upgrade! I would be happy to put AC in the orange 70 and sell it to you. heck we'll even paint it blue

Not true... I just have lots of great ideas and no money!

SShink · 3K+ Club

O.k. Derek, Scott, and all.... Summit has Edelbrock IAS shocks for $50 on sale right now (reg. $80)! And... I have a line on a set of Hotchkis 1" lowering springs (front and rear) for a BBC for $200 shipped.

How would the Edelbrock's work with these lowering springs?

This seems like a good street setup to me.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Edelbrocks aren't bad... they must be clearancing them out because Edelbrock discontinued their shock line. They're a little bit under-valved for heavier rate springs, but they're way closer than any off-the-shelf replacement type shock.

I had them on Jenna's wagon, and they worked pretty well.

Pushrod · Active Member

Hey Stan thanks for doing all the research on the rear springs, now I too have to make up my mind on what to do without going down a slippery slope I too just would like a little better handling car.

SteveS · Super Poster

Edelbrock must be downsizing a little. They discontinued at least their LS exhaust line, if not all exhaust and sold their suspension line to QA1.

http://www.edelbrock.com/media/news/2011/automotive/082511.html

Chris R · 2K+ Club

I didnt realize they were going to quit making those. They do have some pretty good prices on them. I may have to pick up a set for my Tahoe. Almost 150K and still on the original shocks.

Stan. I know you already listed them but if they are new in box. You might try calling Speedway and see if you can send them back for the right ones. Just a thought. Could save you a few bucks on new springs. Even if you have had them sitting around for a while they may hook you up.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Chris R wrote:
I didnt realize they were going to quit making those. They do have some pretty good prices on them. I may have to pick up a set for my Tahoe. Almost 150K and still on the original shocks.
Stan. I know you already listed them but if they are new in box. You might try calling Speedway and see if you can send them back for the right ones. Just a thought. Could save you a few bucks on new springs.

WARNING-WARNING-WARNING WILL ROBINSON Summit only has the Edelbrock fronts, no rears! Argh!

Chris, I bought the Tru-Coils from Speedway Motors last May. The receipt says no returns if not within 30 days. I haven't called them to see if they'd take them back, but I guess I could give it a try.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

What a great education on springs; Mike is right you need two cars. Keep spending I’m learning more every day.

So let’s see, this started with an A/C mod install, then while the dash is out it grows to soundproofing, gauge changes, and who knows what other interior upgrades , then we drop the rear to just change the gears and that leads to replacing the suspension, and now you want to drop the gas tank! Wow, that’s a long sentence! You Buddy are why deep into CAC; you may need a rope or ladder to get out.

But I’m enjoying it on your dime, I’m learning all I need to know about springs and that’s good, I plan to replace my springs to raise the front end two inches in the spring.

SShink · 3K+ Club

dashboard wrote:
What a great education on springs; Mike is right you need two cars. Keep spending I’m learning more every day.

So let’s see, this started with an A/C mod install, then while the dash is out it grows to soundproofing, gauge changes, and who knows what other interior upgrades , then we drop the rear to just change the gears and that leads to replacing the suspension, and now you want to drop the gas tank! Wow, that’s a long sentence! You Buddy are why deep into CAC; you may need a rope or ladder to get out.

But I’m enjoying it on your dime, I’m learning all I need to know about springs and that’s good, I plan to replace my springs to raise the front end two inches in the spring.

I had 3 projects planned for this winter:

1.) Replace circuit board on gauges and get the tach working (that blew up into the interior re-do)

2.) While the dash is out.... install the AC (so far no collateral damage from that but I have to get under the hood yet....)

3.) Change out the gears (I knew I was going to replace the springs/shocks, but didn't plan on getting into under carriage cleaning/painting, gas tank renewal, etc.)

And yes... the scope has crept. BUT, don't forget I'm the guy that swapped out a small block/TH350 and installed a 4 speed/454 in 2 weeks (with your and Gear Lube's help). So... look out in March. I'll be hittin' it hard and it will be back on the road in April!!!!

Derek69SS · Founding Member

I know a good roll-cage guy if you change your mind.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Any opinions on KYB Gas-Adjust shocks? They seem reasonable in price, but don't know if they are any better than the Monroes. I seem to remember having a set on one of my Chevelles, and they seemed a little harsh if I remember...

SShink · 3K+ Club

SShink wrote:
Any opinions on KYB Gas-Adjust shocks? They seem reasonable in price, but don't know if they are any better than the Monroes. I seem to remember having a set on one of my Chevelles, and they seemed a little harsh if I remember...

Derek, I found your feedback on TC, so I guess I know where you stand on this :

Derek69SS

Senior Tech Team

"The Stig"

Join Date: Nov 2000

Location: Dexter, MN

Posts: 16,720

Re: Shock recommendation for the street

KYBs are junk. You'll only like them if you've never had a good shock to compare it to.

Koni, Edelbrock, Billstein, QA1, Alston, and AFCO are good... some better than others.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

KYB = "Kills Your Back"

I haven't driven anything with them, but my understanding is that they're very harsh and have poor compression/rebound control. You'd be better off with the Monroes IMHO.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Derek69SS wrote:
KYB = "Kills Your Back"
I haven't driven anything with them, but my understanding is that they're very harsh and have poor compression/rebound control. You'd be better off with the Monroes IMHO.

That's what I thought. I had some on the white '71 Chevelle when I bought it, and they were very firm and harsh when going over bumps.

I'm seriously considering the standard Bilstein's at this point. Do you think with the Hotchkis 1" lowering springs they would be too harsh a ride around town?

Keep in mind I have an old butt according to Scott!

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Bilsteins are fantastic shocks, you won't be disappointed.

The re-valved ones from Hotchkis are better, but for what you're looking for, I don't know if you'd notice much difference.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Derek69SS wrote:
Bilsteins are fantastic shocks, you won't be disappointed.

The re-valved ones from Hotchkis are better, but for what you're looking for, I don't know if you'd notice much difference.

I looked at the Hotchkis ones, and they are $40 ea. higher than the HD Bilsteins. I'm sure my old butt wouldn't know the difference for $160!

SShink · 3K+ Club

I called Speedway, and they will take the wrong springs back for a 15% restocking fee, so I'll still get $70 out of them. And, we're going back to Lincoln (home of Speedway) in March, so I won't pay any shipping.

So, it looks like I'll go with the Bilstein's since it works out to about $50 apiece after I get the credit back on the Speedway springs!

I think I did pretty good getting the Hotchkis springs from a TC member for $200 ($450 Value), and the shocks for $200, so all in 'only' $400! Time to sell some more parts!

Derek69SS · Founding Member

SShink wrote:
Time to sell some more parts!

I'd start with the kidneys. Save the liver for an LS1 swap.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Im glad I was able to encourage you to at least see what they say. Sometimes it pays off to at least enquire the company you bought them from. There is still good customer service out there.

Scott Parkhurst · Super Poster

I've got some decent front shocks I can let you try out- Keep 'em if you like 'em and give 'em back if you don't.

They're from Doetsch Tech- designed for lowered vehicles and are adjustable...but require removal to adjust.

I had them on my wagon before the coil-overs.

SteveS · Super Poster

Derek69SS wrote:
SShink wrote:
Time to sell some more parts!
I'd start with the kidneys. Save the liver for an LS1 swap.

Definitely save the liver for an LS1 swap, or there are always Medical Research studies. You'll probably end up with a constant tic and glow in the dark a little, but you'll really enjoy the car when it's done.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Scott Parkhurst wrote:
I've got some decent front shocks I can let you try out- Keep 'em if you like 'em and give 'em back if you don't.

They're from Doetsch Tech- designed for lowered vehicles and are adjustable...but require removal to adjust.

I had them on my wagon before the coil-overs.

Thanks Scott. I may take you up on that. I'm going to buy the Bilstein's for the rear now, and the fronts in a few weeks. But, maybe I'll try yours first. I'm assuming the adjustibility is in the dampening rate?