Chris S. And I started the radio replacement and speaker addition in the Chevelle last night. I only snapped one picture as it’s not quite complete. The new stereo is in place and working when Chris left last night. But, we both believe that we may have wired the new 6x9s backwards as they weren’t working last night. We tested the stereo with my garage speakers and that worked. The 6x9s are brand new, so reverse polarity must be the culprit for them not working. I also need to swap the temporary wood screws that Pioneer sends with the speaker kit for some 10-24 machine screws and nylock nuts. Just a few more punch list items and I’ll have a better sound setup than the Motorola AM radio and single dash speaker.
Reverse polarity on the speaker wires won't stop them from working. Are they ohm matched ? Factory speakers are 10 ohm, while aftermarket radios are different. If aftermarket speakers, are you sure you have the correct wires for a 2 speaker install ? Most aftermarket radios have wires for 4 speakers.
ghaasl said
Jul 1, 2022
They should be ohm matched. The speakers are new Pioneer 6x9s, 4 ohm I believe (edit: speakers are 4 ohm and head unit is 4-8 ohm). The radio/head unit is a Retrosound Hermosa. We got sound when we jumpered to my garage speakers. Fader set all the way to the rear, speakers wired to the rear speaker wires on the back of the unit. All we could think of is perhaps reverse polarity. I’ve yet to check it out. I have a bit of time on Sunday. If they don’t work, I’ll just have to buy a new pair. I’m also going to test them with my garage stereo to see if it is in fact the speakers and not something else.
-- Edited by ghaasl on Friday 1st of July 2022 10:09:21 PM
Lost in the 60s said
Jul 1, 2022
Knowing the radio works with other speakers, it may be the speakers themselves. Testing them may give you the answer. Your speaker wires should have an indicator stripe on 1 wire to know which one you use for positive/negative on both ends.
If no stripe, the wires themselves may be different colors.
-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Friday 1st of July 2022 10:14:08 PM
ghaasl said
Jul 2, 2022
Confirming with the tech at Crutchfield, the small spade connector and pigtail wire with the black runner are to be on the negative side, just like Chris has it wired up. I’m going to have to remove the speakers and try them with my garage stereo.
John D said
Jul 5, 2022
Tips from an old Car-Fi guy...
As mentioned, polarity reversal will not effect operation, but can/will effect sound. (Back in the day we'd purposely invert polarity occasionally and improve the sound... some cars had weird harmonics and we were getting phase cancellation).
Silly question and possible DOH! moment... (Assuming you've only installed 1 pair of speakers) Have you checked the "fader" control on the head unit? It may be cranked all the way "front" or "rear"...
Quick & dirty way to check the speakers (voice coils) were manufactured and labeled correctly... - Get a nearly dead "AA" 1.5v battery and a length of speaker wire - Strip the ends and tape one to each end of the battery - make note of which (stripe/no-stripe) is taped to the positive end of the battery - Hold your "-/negative" battery lead on the -/negative terminal of the speaker - Tap Tap Tap the +/positive battery lead on the +/positive terminal of the speaker and watch the cone ** Do not do this for a long period of time OR HOLD the positive battery lead on the speaker - you'll overheat/melt the voice coil! Just Tap Tap Tap.**
If the polarity is correct, the speaker cone will move up/out. If the polarity is wrong, the speaker cone will pull in.
ghaasl said
Jul 5, 2022
-UPDATE-
Yesterday I took the speakers down, powered up the head unit, and bingo, sound. Turns out the speakers want to be top mounted. When under mounted, the foam surround on the speaker gets compressed against the bottom support steel for the package tray. So, Chris S. and I will be doing some more trimming on Wednesday evening. It shouldn't take too long. Just need to measure twice and cut once. I started to cut with my 3" air cutoff tool, then I decided I should wait so I didn't burn the car to the ground. It'll be ready for SMN in a couple weeks.
Lost in the 60s said
Jul 5, 2022
Check if there are plastic spacers still available to set the speaker lower under the package tray before cutting. I made a set from some old speakers for my car.
-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Tuesday 5th of July 2022 07:52:08 AM
SShink said
Jul 6, 2022
From another 'old audio guy', John beat me to most of the tips on how to check speaker polarity. Other than, since you're an 'analog' guy Gavin , find an analog Ohmmeter and put it in the '0' Ohm range and use the positive and negative probes in the manner John described. The speaker will pull in or out based on polarity.
The old analog ohmmeter's had enough current in them to energize the magnet and cone without burning them up. Used to use this process all the time when checking speaker drivers (tweeters, woofers, etc.).
I think I even have an analog VOM from the 80's somewhere around as I don't throw anything away! lol
ghaasl said
Jul 6, 2022
-FINAL UPDATE-
The new stereo and speakers are installed and functioning perfectly. They sound good at highway speed with the windows open. The biggest thanks is to my amazing wife. She bought this set up for me as a Christmas gift. Also, a huge thank you to Chris S. for all of his help. Without him, I’d be completely lost. We overcame some adversity with the speakers, but, it was worth it. Looking forward to seeing everyone at SMN in a week and a half.
What's your affiliation to Big Boy restaurants ? I saw quite a few in MI when I was there a couple weeks ago. Makes sense, as they are still headquartered there. They disappeared from this area a long time ago.
ghaasl said
Jul 7, 2022
Mitch-
I have no affiliation to them. But, my wife is from MI, so there's that. The Big Boy bobblehead came with the car. I thought it added a fun, period type touch. Yeah, I have 3M Command strips holding it down. But, it's fun to look into the rearview mirror and see the head bouncing as I'm going down the road. I did have to do a slight repair to that as well. The head would come off. So, I took some loctite super glue and glued the head back on. Will you be at SMN next weekend?
-- Edited by ghaasl on Thursday 7th of July 2022 07:20:39 AM
Lost in the 60s said
Jul 7, 2022
Ha, it came with the car...that's cool. Did the car come from MI too ?
Doubt I will be at SMN. I have a lot to do on my '66 Chevelle to get it ready to go to Bowling Green, KY on the 20th.
Bobs_Place said
Jul 7, 2022
So who makes good 6 X 9 speakers, I'm in need of a pair.
Gavin how do you like yours.
ghaasl said
Jul 7, 2022
Mitch-
The car originally came from Colorado. It was bought new by a lady that was soon to retire and she wanted a brand new car. The gentleman I bought the car from bought it from her estate. Fun fact, he was one of the original members of our club. If you scroll through the photo archives, you're sure to see it. I bought it in Red Wing in 2019. I haven't done all that much to it to make it mine, yet. Tach, stereo, and some basic maintenance stuff. There are more improvements coming in future years (rear end upgrades, A/C, possibly more juice, etc.). As of now, I'm enjoying the hell out of driving it.
ghaasl said
Jul 7, 2022
Bobs_Place wrote:
So who makes good 6 X 9 speakers, I'm in need of a pair.
Gavin how do you like yours.
Mine are just some decent Pioneer 6x9s. Nothing really fancy. I know that Rockford/Fosgate makes some really nice 6x9 speakers. Mine sound great for the limited time I've had them functioning. Chris and I had no problem hearing them at highway speed with the windows down. Had it at around half volume. I can say that the RetroSound Hermosa head unit is pretty sweet. Factory looking, no dash hacking, all of the modern bells and whistles with bluetooth, USB, hands free phone use, etc. I didn't hook up the hands free phone deal as I didn't want to monkey around with where to put the microphone for it. That may be a winter project. I'm quite happy.
Bobs_Place said
Jul 7, 2022
ghaasl wrote:
Bobs_Place wrote:
So who makes good 6 X 9 speakers, I'm in need of a pair.
Gavin how do you like yours.
Mine are just some decent Pioneer 6x9s. Nothing really fancy. I know that Rockford/Fosgate makes some really nice 6x9 speakers. Mine sound great for the limited time I've had them functioning. Chris and I had no problem hearing them at highway speed with the windows down. Had it at around half volume. I can say that the RetroSound Hermosa head unit is pretty sweet. Factory looking, no dash hacking, all of the modern bells and whistles with bluetooth, USB, hands free phone use, etc. I didn't hook up the hands free phone deal as I didn't want to monkey around with where to put the microphone for it. That may be a winter project. I'm quite happy.
Sounds like a great radio, I have an Electro-tech conversion in a factory radio with all the goody's, but when I got it all working it didn't sound good until I found and unplugged a bad speaker. Sounds good now but only 3 speaker so need to get a match pair for the rear.
ghaasl said
Jul 7, 2022
Bobs_Place wrote:
ghaasl wrote:
Bobs_Place wrote:
So who makes good 6 X 9 speakers, I'm in need of a pair.
Gavin how do you like yours.
Mine are just some decent Pioneer 6x9s. Nothing really fancy. I know that Rockford/Fosgate makes some really nice 6x9 speakers. Mine sound great for the limited time I've had them functioning. Chris and I had no problem hearing them at highway speed with the windows down. Had it at around half volume. I can say that the RetroSound Hermosa head unit is pretty sweet. Factory looking, no dash hacking, all of the modern bells and whistles with bluetooth, USB, hands free phone use, etc. I didn't hook up the hands free phone deal as I didn't want to monkey around with where to put the microphone for it. That may be a winter project. I'm quite happy.
Sounds like a great radio, I have an Electro-tech conversion in a factory radio with all the goody's, but when I got it all working it didn't sound good until I found and unplugged a bad speaker. Sounds good now but only 3 speaker so need to get a match pair for the rear.
I thought hard about going the Electro-tech route. By the time I decided, they stopped doing the conversions due to the owner's passing.
Lost in the 60s said
Jul 7, 2022
Yep, I procrastinated long enough to miss out on that with 2 radios...
Bobs_Place said
Jul 7, 2022
Yes , very sad to here he died.
I do really like my radio.
I heard there was some one else doing them.
it is Aurora Design that makes the circuit boards that goes into the radios for the conversion.
I doesn't look that complicated, I bet J Delke could do them .
BLyke said
Jul 9, 2022
there is a guy in Blane who did my Catilina
Muscle Car Radio Conversions
612-991-5857
Joe is the owner www.mcrconversions.com/
Chris S. And I started the radio replacement and speaker addition in the Chevelle last night. I only snapped one picture as it’s not quite complete. The new stereo is in place and working when Chris left last night. But, we both believe that we may have wired the new 6x9s backwards as they weren’t working last night. We tested the stereo with my garage speakers and that worked. The 6x9s are brand new, so reverse polarity must be the culprit for them not working. I also need to swap the temporary wood screws that Pioneer sends with the speaker kit for some 10-24 machine screws and nylock nuts. Just a few more punch list items and I’ll have a better sound setup than the Motorola AM radio and single dash speaker.
They should be ohm matched. The speakers are new Pioneer 6x9s, 4 ohm I believe (edit: speakers are 4 ohm and head unit is 4-8 ohm). The radio/head unit is a Retrosound Hermosa. We got sound when we jumpered to my garage speakers. Fader set all the way to the rear, speakers wired to the rear speaker wires on the back of the unit. All we could think of is perhaps reverse polarity. I’ve yet to check it out. I have a bit of time on Sunday. If they don’t work, I’ll just have to buy a new pair. I’m also going to test them with my garage stereo to see if it is in fact the speakers and not something else.
-- Edited by ghaasl on Friday 1st of July 2022 10:09:21 PM
Knowing the radio works with other speakers, it may be the speakers themselves. Testing them may give you the answer.
Your speaker wires should have an indicator stripe on 1 wire to know which one you use for positive/negative on both ends.
If no stripe, the wires themselves may be different colors.
-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Friday 1st of July 2022 10:14:08 PM
Tips from an old Car-Fi guy...
As mentioned, polarity reversal will not effect operation, but can/will effect sound. (Back in the day we'd purposely invert polarity occasionally and improve the sound... some cars had weird harmonics and we were getting phase cancellation).
Silly question and possible DOH! moment... (Assuming you've only installed 1 pair of speakers) Have you checked the "fader" control on the head unit? It may be cranked all the way "front" or "rear"...
Quick & dirty way to check the speakers (voice coils) were manufactured and labeled correctly...
- Get a nearly dead "AA" 1.5v battery and a length of speaker wire
- Strip the ends and tape one to each end of the battery - make note of which (stripe/no-stripe) is taped to the positive end of the battery
- Hold your "-/negative" battery lead on the -/negative terminal of the speaker
- Tap Tap Tap the +/positive battery lead on the +/positive terminal of the speaker and watch the cone
** Do not do this for a long period of time OR HOLD the positive battery lead on the speaker - you'll overheat/melt the voice coil! Just Tap Tap Tap.**
If the polarity is correct, the speaker cone will move up/out.
If the polarity is wrong, the speaker cone will pull in.
Yesterday I took the speakers down, powered up the head unit, and bingo, sound. Turns out the speakers want to be top mounted. When under mounted, the foam surround on the speaker gets compressed against the bottom support steel for the package tray. So, Chris S. and I will be doing some more trimming on Wednesday evening. It shouldn't take too long. Just need to measure twice and cut once. I started to cut with my 3" air cutoff tool, then I decided I should wait so I didn't burn the car to the ground. It'll be ready for SMN in a couple weeks.
Check if there are plastic spacers still available to set the speaker lower under the package tray before cutting. I made a set from some old speakers for my car.
Plenty on Amazon... just 1 example.
https://www.amazon.com/Metra-82-6902-Universal-Spacer-Speakers/dp/B00TQOX080
-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Tuesday 5th of July 2022 07:52:08 AM
From another 'old audio guy', John beat me to most of the tips on how to check speaker polarity. Other than, since you're an 'analog' guy Gavin
, find an analog Ohmmeter and put it in the '0' Ohm range and use the positive and negative probes in the manner John described. The speaker will pull in or out based on polarity.
The old analog ohmmeter's had enough current in them to energize the magnet and cone without burning them up. Used to use this process all the time when checking speaker drivers (tweeters, woofers, etc.).
I think I even have an analog VOM from the 80's somewhere around as I don't throw anything away! lol
The new stereo and speakers are installed and functioning perfectly. They sound good at highway speed with the windows open. The biggest thanks is to my amazing wife. She bought this set up for me as a Christmas gift. Also, a huge thank you to Chris S. for all of his help. Without him, I’d be completely lost. We overcame some adversity with the speakers, but, it was worth it. Looking forward to seeing everyone at SMN in a week and a half.
Mitch-
I have no affiliation to them. But, my wife is from MI, so there's that. The Big Boy bobblehead came with the car. I thought it added a fun, period type touch. Yeah, I have 3M Command strips holding it down. But, it's fun to look into the rearview mirror and see the head bouncing as I'm going down the road. I did have to do a slight repair to that as well. The head would come off. So, I took some loctite super glue and glued the head back on. Will you be at SMN next weekend?
-- Edited by ghaasl on Thursday 7th of July 2022 07:20:39 AM
Doubt I will be at SMN. I have a lot to do on my '66 Chevelle to get it ready to go to Bowling Green, KY on the 20th.
So who makes good 6 X 9 speakers, I'm in need of a pair.
Gavin how do you like yours.
Mitch-
The car originally came from Colorado. It was bought new by a lady that was soon to retire and she wanted a brand new car. The gentleman I bought the car from bought it from her estate. Fun fact, he was one of the original members of our club. If you scroll through the photo archives, you're sure to see it. I bought it in Red Wing in 2019. I haven't done all that much to it to make it mine, yet. Tach, stereo, and some basic maintenance stuff. There are more improvements coming in future years (rear end upgrades, A/C, possibly more juice, etc.). As of now, I'm enjoying the hell out of driving it.
Mine are just some decent Pioneer 6x9s. Nothing really fancy. I know that Rockford/Fosgate makes some really nice 6x9 speakers. Mine sound great for the limited time I've had them functioning. Chris and I had no problem hearing them at highway speed with the windows down. Had it at around half volume. I can say that the RetroSound Hermosa head unit is pretty sweet. Factory looking, no dash hacking, all of the modern bells and whistles with bluetooth, USB, hands free phone use, etc. I didn't hook up the hands free phone deal as I didn't want to monkey around with where to put the microphone for it. That may be a winter project. I'm quite happy.
Sounds like a great radio, I have an Electro-tech conversion in a factory radio with all the goody's, but when I got it all working it didn't sound good until I found and unplugged a bad speaker. Sounds good now but only 3 speaker so need to get a match pair for the rear.
I thought hard about going the Electro-tech route. By the time I decided, they stopped doing the conversions due to the owner's passing.
Yep, I procrastinated long enough to miss out on that with 2 radios...
Yes , very sad to here he died.
I do really like my radio.
I heard there was some one else doing them.
it is Aurora Design that makes the circuit boards that goes into the radios for the conversion.
I doesn't look that complicated, I bet J Delke could do them
.
Muscle Car Radio Conversions
612-991-5857
Joe is the owner
www.mcrconversions.com/