I check the valve train geometry back when I first installed the roller rockers by checking the pattern on the valve stem tip. Since then I found a much more accurate way to get good geometry, "at 1/2 valve lift the rocker should be 90* to the valve stem". I found the intakes could use an additional .250 and exhaust .200".
There is also the lifter plunger setting that could be up to .080 with one full turn of the adjuster, well I find that these lifters are short travel lifters and should be set to .010-.015" at the lifter, however this engine has always had a lot of lifter noise and is quieter with the lifters set tighter.
So I decided to rest all the lifters to .010" and check each lifter as I go. Found #5 & 7 exhaust were stuck down and found the #8 intake lifter is coming apart, the upper snap ring is out of place and the internal spring just keep pushing the push rod up as I loosen the adjuster. So need to get the manifold off and remove and insect the parts.
Lost in the 60s said
Apr 17, 2020
Well, you were looking for something to do during the stay at home time, right ?
Speaking of something to do, haven't seen anything about the Impala restoration for a while.
Bobs_Place said
Apr 17, 2020
After getting the manifold off I pulled the lifters one at a time. I found that the retainer, the part that holds the lifter together, was damaged by the push rod. These lifters have a small center to locate the push rod, so the push rod could set just inside the outer body of the lifter. So when I removed and installed the checking push rod, or when reinstalling the original push rod I damaged the retainer. YES I created this problem . I have just not ever seen a lifter that would not center the push rod each time you drop it in . On one lifter the retainer came out so the internals were being held in by the push rod , with the other two the retainer was deformed just enough to holding the plungers down. The good news is I was able to straighten the retainers clean and reassemble the lifters. I inspected all the other lifters for damage, I also inspected the face of each, all looked good.
-- Edited by Bobs_Place on Friday 17th of April 2020 08:08:45 PM
Well, you were looking for something to do during the stay at home time, right ?
Speaking of something to do, haven't seen anything about the Impala restoration for a while.
I am about 7 week out of total hip replacement. I worked on the Impala, front fenders and doors, getting them ready to blast and prime just before the hip thing. After about 4 weeks sitting on my axx, it was time to get some things done. Didn't think working on the Impala would be the smart move with the lifting bending twisting and stretching. I didn't want to blast without being able to primer same day as the first week back out in the shop I could only work 2-3 hours, much better now almost a full day.
So as it turns out out a rocker arm or a push rod is a lot lighter then a door or fender
Lost in the 60s said
Apr 17, 2020
You're lucky the internal piston didn't come out of the lifter body at rpm. I had that happen on my LS5 and the piston fell into the center galley and when a lobe came around, it snapped the cam in 3 pieces. That led, of course, to a godawful replacement cam with 304 duration at .520 lift. Not very streetable anymore, but it sure was fun hammering the pedal at 3,000 and having the L60's go up in smoke at 30 mph..
I forgot about the hip replacement. Good you are being sensible about giving it time to heal.
67ss said
Apr 18, 2020
Did you look into replacing those retainers with snap rings? Those don’t seem very sturdy.
Bobs_Place said
Apr 18, 2020
67ss wrote:
Did you look into replacing those retainers with snap rings? Those don’t seem very sturdy.
No I did not.
These retainers put the P/R cup deeper into the lifter than a snap ring would maybe .050-.100". It took a lot of force to snap the retainers in place, and the seemed to fit good.
I am running slightly higher then spec on spring pressure and going from 7/16 to a lighter 3/8 .080 push rods so the valve train should be stable at speed.
I am not to optimist that I will quiet down the lifter noise with the .010' setting so I will likely need a much deeper setting. That puts the push rod cups farther down and away from the retainers. Once adjusted, the push rod cup and retainer should not come in contact. Could the higher valve spring pressure be contributing to the valve train noise?
I have the lifter part no.( XJ-817-R) but cannot find an info on them except that they appear to be in the short travel category based on my measurements. Are they "Anti Pumpups"?
67ss said
Apr 19, 2020
I wouldn’t think spring pressures would make it noisy. Do you have roller rockers? Some say those can make things a bit louder. I also think headers make it seem like valvetrain noise when it is not.
Bobs_Place said
Apr 20, 2020
I suspect spring pressure because I know its high, 20-30# higher the high side of spec both seat and over the nose.
I do have rollers and would expect some noise. Some are consistently louder then others and some I think are not very loud at all.
I had a pickup that had a tic when cold, sounded just like a lifter, I saw some soot around the exhaust manifold/head I tightened the manifold bolt, no tic. I don't think the noise is headers or rocker, as there is less noise when the lifters are adjusted tighter.
After reading about shout travel lifters I was going to set them to the recommended setting of .010", this would give internal plunger .070" travel before it bottomed out and making noise. The problem with that theory is that there is a lot of oil in the lifter under the plunger to bleed out which prevents plunger from bottoming out and make noise! Rather, I think if the lifter is set to .010' plunger travel, with the excessive valve spring pressure, the lifter bleeds more oil from under the lifter plunger when cycled, if the lifter plunger return spring is not capable of returning the plunger fast enough then the clearance between the push rod and push rod seat would increase. If the lifter is set deeper, to .050 to .070" or so, the plunger return spring would be compressed to a higher pressure and hopefully capable of returning the plunger fast enough before the next cycle then the clearance/noise is eliminated.
At one full turn of the adjust, the lifter is bottomed out and the valve starts to open, that's about .080" plunger travel. I was set at 5/8 of a turn, I'll go tighter.
Bobs_Place said
May 2, 2020
Back on the Chevelle engine yesterday, just got the second set of push rods. Had to send first set back, they were the correct length but put the rocker roller tip to close to the edge of the valve stem . With out a push rod I could not accurately check the contact pattern. I shortened the push rods by .100, that gave me a narrow pattern that is very close to center.
While waiting for push rods and gaskets last week, I cleaned gasket surfaces and all the bolt holes in the heads and at the time I thought it all looked good. Later as I was sizing up the new push rods, I found a lot of trash and metal fillings that came from the bolt holes, two holes on each head are opened behind to the push rod area and will leak oil if not cleaned and sealed. I used a tap to clean the treads but didn't seem like I was cutting new threads, I think the filings and trash was there from new and was never cleaned out. So drained the oil cut the filter opened looking to see if any debris made it to the pan or filter, all looked good, I then laid a cloth in the lifter valley to catch the debris, then flushed the heads. I plugged the filter bypass to trap any debris and prevent it from getting past the filter. When the engine is ready to run I'll fill it with a bit thinner oil to flush, than drain and refill with the correct oil, replace the filter and again cut open to inspect. Hopefully it will all look good.
Lost in the 60s said
May 2, 2020
I have a set of re-threading taps and dies to repair and clean damaged/dirty threads. They aren't hard enough to cut new threads and work well for what you did. I'm always concerned about removing more material when cleaning threads too.
Bobs_Place said
May 2, 2020
Lost in the 60s wrote:
I have a set of re-threading taps and dies to repair and clean damaged/dirty threads. They aren't hard enough to cut new threads and work well for what you did. I'm always concerned about removing more material when cleaning threads too.
I find it hard to believe that I actually cut threads, tap went in very easily. At work, we would always clean bolt hole with a taps as needed, some engine it was required on headbolt holes.
Bobs_Place said
May 9, 2020
Last week, I cleaned and flushed the heads into the lifter valley were I placed a cloth to catch any debris, than removed the cloth, flush oil pan from cam area.
I set the lifters by using a .030" feeler gauge between the valve stem and rocker tip, then over tighten the rocker and opening the valve to bleed and bottom out the lifter, than back the rocker adjusting nut until the feeler gauge loosens, than lock the adjuster nut and remove the feeler gauge.
Before installing the distributor I reset the curve to 26* at idle and 34* all in by about 2400 RPM, than installed a different vacuum advance canister which should make about 18* more at cruise.
Filled and flushed with 5-30, drained and cut the filter, found filter very clean, 2-3 specks in the filter, the drain pan was clean after sitting then dumping. Fill the crank case with the good stuff and installed a new filter.
Took the car for a test beet, ran good, very little to no lifter noise. Big improvement!
Jon H said
May 11, 2020
Don't you love it when a plan comes together?
more ambition than brains said
May 12, 2020
A level of precision I could only watch or dream about!
I check the valve train geometry back when I first installed the roller rockers by checking the pattern on the valve stem tip. Since then I found a much more accurate way to get good geometry, "at 1/2 valve lift the rocker should be 90* to the valve stem". I found the intakes could use an additional .250 and exhaust .200".
There is also the lifter plunger setting that could be up to .080 with one full turn of the adjuster, well I find that these lifters are short travel lifters and should be set to .010-.015" at the lifter, however this engine has always had a lot of lifter noise and is quieter with the lifters set tighter.
So I decided to rest all the lifters to .010" and check each lifter as I go. Found #5 & 7 exhaust were stuck down and found the #8 intake lifter is coming apart, the upper snap ring is out of place and the internal spring just keep pushing the push rod up as I loosen the adjuster. So need to get the manifold off and remove and insect the parts.
Well, you were looking for something to do during the stay at home time, right ?
Speaking of something to do, haven't seen anything about the Impala restoration for a while.
After getting the manifold off I pulled the lifters one at a time. I found that the retainer, the part that holds the lifter together, was damaged by the push rod. These lifters have a small center to locate the push rod, so the push rod could set just inside the outer body of the lifter. So when I removed and installed the checking push rod, or when reinstalling the original push rod I damaged the retainer. YES I created this problem
. I have just not ever seen a lifter that would not center the push rod each time you drop it in 
. On one lifter the retainer came out so the internals were being held in by the push rod , with the other two the retainer was deformed just enough to holding the plungers down. The good news is I was able to straighten the retainers clean and reassemble the lifters. I inspected all the other lifters for damage, I also inspected the face of each, all looked good. 
-- Edited by Bobs_Place on Friday 17th of April 2020 08:08:45 PM
I am about 7 week out of total hip replacement. I worked on the Impala, front fenders and doors, getting them ready to blast and prime just before the hip thing. After about 4 weeks sitting on my axx, it was time to get some things done. Didn't think working on the Impala would be the smart move with the lifting bending twisting and stretching. I didn't want to blast without being able to primer same day as the first week back out in the shop I could only work 2-3 hours, much better now almost a full day.
So as it turns out out a rocker arm or a push rod is a lot lighter then a door or fender
You're lucky the internal piston didn't come out of the lifter body at rpm. I had that happen on my LS5 and the piston fell into the center galley and when a lobe came around, it snapped the cam in 3 pieces. That led, of course, to a godawful replacement cam with 304 duration at .520 lift. Not very streetable anymore, but it sure was fun hammering the pedal at 3,000 and having the L60's go up in smoke at 30 mph..
I forgot about the hip replacement. Good you are being sensible about giving it time to heal.
Did you look into replacing those retainers with snap rings? Those don’t seem very sturdy.
No I did not.
These retainers put the P/R cup deeper into the lifter than a snap ring would maybe .050-.100". It took a lot of force to snap the retainers in place, and the seemed to fit good.
I am running slightly higher then spec on spring pressure and going from 7/16 to a lighter 3/8 .080 push rods so the valve train should be stable at speed.
I am not to optimist that I will quiet down the lifter noise with the .010' setting so I will likely need a much deeper setting. That puts the push rod cups farther down and away from the retainers. Once adjusted, the push rod cup and retainer should not come in contact. Could the higher valve spring pressure be contributing to the valve train noise?
I have the lifter part no.( XJ-817-R) but cannot find an info on them except that they appear to be in the short travel category based on my measurements. Are they "Anti Pumpups"?
I wouldn’t think spring pressures would make it noisy. Do you have roller rockers? Some say those can make things a bit louder. I also think headers make it seem like valvetrain noise when it is not.
I suspect spring pressure because I know its high, 20-30# higher the high side of spec both seat and over the nose.
I do have rollers and would expect some noise. Some are consistently louder then others and some I think are not very loud at all.
I had a pickup that had a tic when cold, sounded just like a lifter, I saw some soot around the exhaust manifold/head I tightened the manifold bolt, no tic. I don't think the noise is headers or rocker, as there is less noise when the lifters are adjusted tighter.
After reading about shout travel lifters I was going to set them to the recommended setting of .010", this would give internal plunger .070" travel before it bottomed out and making noise. The problem with that theory is that there is a lot of oil in the lifter under the plunger to bleed out which prevents plunger from bottoming out and make noise! Rather, I think if the lifter is set to .010' plunger travel, with the excessive valve spring pressure, the lifter bleeds more oil from under the lifter plunger when cycled, if the lifter plunger return spring is not capable of returning the plunger fast enough then the clearance between the push rod and push rod seat would increase. If the lifter is set deeper, to .050 to .070" or so, the plunger return spring would be compressed to a higher pressure and hopefully capable of returning the plunger fast enough before the next cycle then the clearance/noise is eliminated.
At one full turn of the adjust, the lifter is bottomed out and the valve starts to open, that's about .080" plunger travel. I was set at 5/8 of a turn, I'll go tighter.
Back on the Chevelle engine yesterday, just got the second set of push rods. Had to send first set back, they were the correct length but put the rocker roller tip to close to the edge of the valve stem
. With out a push rod I could not accurately check the contact pattern. I shortened the push rods by .100, that gave me a narrow pattern that is very close to center. 
While waiting for push rods and gaskets last week, I cleaned gasket surfaces and all the bolt holes in the heads and at the time I thought it all looked good. Later as I was sizing up the new push rods, I found a lot of trash and metal fillings that came from the bolt holes, two holes on each head are opened behind to the push rod area and will leak oil if not cleaned and sealed. I used a tap to clean the treads but didn't seem like I was cutting new threads, I think the filings and trash was there from new and was never cleaned out. So drained the oil cut the filter opened looking to see if any debris made it to the pan or filter, all looked good, I then laid a cloth in the lifter valley to catch the debris, then flushed the heads. I plugged the filter bypass to trap any debris and prevent it from getting past the filter. When the engine is ready to run I'll fill it with a bit thinner oil to flush, than drain and refill with the correct oil, replace the filter and again cut open to inspect. Hopefully it will all look good.
I find it hard to believe that I actually cut threads, tap went in very easily. At work, we would always clean bolt hole with a taps as needed, some engine it was required on headbolt holes.
Last week, I cleaned and flushed the heads into the lifter valley were I placed a cloth to catch any debris, than removed the cloth, flush oil pan from cam area.
I set the lifters by using a .030" feeler gauge between the valve stem and rocker tip, then over tighten the rocker and opening the valve to bleed and bottom out the lifter, than back the rocker adjusting nut until the feeler gauge loosens, than lock the adjuster nut and remove the feeler gauge.
Before installing the distributor I reset the curve to 26* at idle and 34* all in by about 2400 RPM, than installed a different vacuum advance canister which should make about 18* more at cruise.
Filled and flushed with 5-30, drained and cut the filter, found filter very clean, 2-3 specks in the filter, the drain pan was clean after sitting then dumping. Fill the crank case with the good stuff and installed a new filter.
Took the car for a test beet, ran good, very little to no lifter noise. Big improvement!
Don't you love it when a plan comes together?
Congrats and happy motoring.
Karl