Well I started tearing into the 12 bolt for the chevelle. Needs everything of coarse but I wanted to get it apart to start cleaning everything. I also wanted to make sure the 11 inch drum brake setup was going to work. Everything bolted right up so all is good on that concern. Here is a couple pics.
What did you get the 11" brakes off ? I want to do that with mine too.
dashboard said
Jan 3, 2017
Lost in the 60s wrote:
What did you get the 11" brakes off ? I want to do that with mine too.
I'm curious also, will the 11" brake fit a 14" rim?
I've been waiting for you to start on the 300.
more ambition than brains said
Jan 3, 2017
Full size b-body?
Karl
Bobs_Place said
Jan 3, 2017
My 66 Impala has 11 " rear brakes. 65-70 12 bolt is all the same. The Chevelle and Impala baking plates will not inter change due to the different bolt hole pattern.
I have plans to cut the ends off from the Chevelle housing and welding on Impala ends that will accept press on brgs and eliminate the "C" clip axles then install the 11" brakes. I am a bit concerned about welding the ends on without the alignment tools however.
Impala housing?
67ss said
Jan 3, 2017
dashboard wrote:
Lost in the 60s wrote:
What did you get the 11" brakes off ? I want to do that with mine too.
I'm curious also, will the 11" brake fit a 14" rim?
I've been waiting for you to start on the 300.
Mitch the brakes came off an 89 caprice cop car with an 8.5 10 bolt. I believe anything fullsize wagon around that same vintage had the 11 brakes as well.
Kevin I have no reason to believe this would not fit a 14 inch rim. Maybe Bob can chime in on his Impala what size rims he has. I don't have a set of drums yet to try and test fit a rim over everything.
Bobs_Place said
Jan 3, 2017
Kevin 14s were standard on the 66 with the 11 drums, with 11.5 front discs 15" wheels were needed.
Had to look again at the picture, didn`t see the ears for the upper control arm the first time. Cool upgrade.
dashboard said
Jan 5, 2017
Just checked Rock Auto. They list 11 and 12 in drums, with 2, 3.25 and 4" widths for a 72 Impala.
Derek69SS said
Jan 6, 2017
71-76 Impala I think were all 5" bolt circle. I think '77 went back to 4-3/4" except wagon and police cars.
67ss said
Jan 6, 2017
Drums for 73-74 chevelle wagon shows 11" drum with 5 x 4 3/4 bolt pattern. This is what I was going to order.
Bobs_Place said
Jan 6, 2017
The 65-70 Impala rear drum is 11x2 with 4 3/4 bolt pattern.
I can bring one to the brunch if you would like to check the fit.
67ss said
Jan 7, 2017
Bobs_Place wrote:
The 65-70 Impala rear drum is 11x2 with 4 3/4 bolt pattern.
I can bring one to the brunch if you would like to check the fit.
If you don't need it back in a hurry yea that would be great.
Bobs_Place said
Jan 7, 2017
Will do, see you there.
Lost in the 60s said
Jan 7, 2017
Cool, once you get this all figured out, I will make the change too.
Good progress. Are you going to add a rear sway bar? I added one from a 68 chevelle. I think that 68 was the first year for a rear sway bar in a chevelle. I think it made a nice difference, at least my mind is telling me that. By any chance did you see the lower front control arm modification that a guy in TC posted to get more caster and retain what looks like original upper and lower control arms? His user ID is AZCamino. I saw them in person at his home in Glendale this past January.
67ss said
Feb 13, 2017
No I do not plan on adding a sway bar at this point in time. Just wanted to box the arms for the strength. I am also going to make my own plate and box the tops arms as well.
Yes I did see the post on the person modifying the front control arms. I don't know it seems a little scary to me to be cutting those up and then welding a piece like that back together. I just have bad visions of the welds not holding and the car crashing.
jim larson said
Feb 16, 2017
Bruce seemed pretty confident about his welding that he said he had been doing for 50+ years. He had boxed the lower control arms since they have been known to crack. Boxed rear uppers and lowers with a sway bar. He seemed pretty safety conscious, duel master cylinder with disc brakes both front and rear ones from a camaro that he had modified. Frame and engine was completely done. New roller hyd cam, lifters, and roller rockers. Looks completely stock with no headers. He was expecting around 450HP/450 torque. All that was left was the paint and interior. El Camino was stripped to bare metal and not a spot of rust though out. I think he and Karl are cut from the same cloth, when looking at their El Camino's
Lost in the 60s said
Feb 18, 2017
67ss wrote:
No I do not plan on adding a sway bar at this point in time. Just wanted to box the arms for the strength. I am also going to make my own plate and box the tops arms as well.
My '67 GTO had factory "reinforced" upper control arms.
Not much to it. I'm certain you can do better.
67ss said
Sep 10, 2017
Finally worked on boxing the rear upper control arms this weekend.
Are you confidant the side won't collapse when you press the bushing in ..
67ss said
Sep 11, 2017
Lost in the 60s wrote:
Are you confidant the side won't collapse when you press the bushing in ..
The thought crossed my mind at one point, but I don't think it should be a problem. I can freeze the bushing to make it slip in easier.
Tim H said
Sep 26, 2017
Very cool, nice work. I sure wish I knew something more about 12 bolts. I'm gonna put new gears and mine it's just something that I am not experienced in and don't have the knowledge. I'm envious
67ss said
Oct 1, 2017
How many steering columns does it take to build one good one? Apparently the answer is three. Looks like all I should need is a lower column bearing and painting it the correct color.
Uh oh, body bushings. We stripping the frame at Karl's in January...
Tim H said
Oct 10, 2017
Just like Christmas
more ambition than brains said
Oct 10, 2017
Still have a boxed ElCamino frame for sale. Strip it, sand blast, detail, shorten, powdercoat, ready to go!
67ss said
Oct 12, 2017
Lost in the 60s wrote:
Uh oh, body bushings. We stripping the frame at Karl's in January...
That is a negative on stripping the frame. Going to try and slip new bushings into the car as it is hoping it will help transmission to tunnel clearance.
jim larson said
Oct 13, 2017
Youmight want to put an extra bushing just in front of the rear wheels. Most Chevelle’s didn’t come with one there;but there is a change nut and space for one. I assume you have the trans crossmember installeded correctly with correct trans mount, etc.
Lost in the 60s said
Oct 14, 2017
Do 1 whole side at a time, just lift with 2 floor jacks under the rocker pinchweld. You may need a bottle jack at the rear also. You don't get much lift at the back with the bumper on.
As for a missing bushing, I've always found a bushing on a '66 in that location, but some '67's had a solid rubber puck as a spacer there and on top of the rear axle crossmember.
67ss said
Oct 16, 2017
Found this on Craigslist, nice used shifter handle for the conversion.
You gonna run a Muncie ? I think Hurst has a shifter that the original handle will bolt onto to look stock.
jim larson said
Oct 16, 2017
I ran a hurst shifter with a muncie handle for about 3 yrs. Once I got the original rods, levers, and shifter gate, I took the old competition plus hurst with rods and levers out. I have hear that the shifter that was used in 64- 67 is much better than the 68 and up muncie shifter.
67ss said
Oct 16, 2017
Lost in the 60s wrote:
You gonna run a Muncie ? I think Hurst has a shifter that the original handle will bolt onto to look stock.
Nope Richmond 5 speed. Yes I will make a bracket to mate this handle to a different shifter body.
Lost in the 60s said
Oct 16, 2017
When does the tunnel butchery begin...
jim larson said
Oct 18, 2017
67ss wrote:
Found this on Craigslist, nice used shifter handle for the conversion.
In 66 they used a off white ball on the bench seats. Repo balls available. Some repo are the wrong size threads, I think originals are 9/16th fine thread. Originals quite rare. I just remember I have an original lever and ball along with the shifter gate for a muncie.
67ss said
Oct 18, 2017
jim larson wrote:
67ss wrote:
Found this on Craigslist, nice used shifter handle for the conversion.
In 66 they used a off white ball on the bench seats. Repo balls available. Some repo are the wrong size threads, I think originals are 9/16th fine thread. Originals quite rare. I just remember I have an original lever and ball along with the shifter gate for a muncie.
Yea I thought the ball was white and now you confirmed it. I don't know what ball I am going to run at this point, If the one off the richmond fits I may use it so the shift pattern is correct.
Almost done setting up the rear end. Fyi I found out 99+ chevy truck with 8.6 rear end uses the same thin shims as the early 12 bolts. Got some from the dealer but they are not cheap.
67ss said
Oct 28, 2017
Spent some time with the rear end today working on the pattern.
-- Edited by 67ss on Saturday 28th of October 2017 08:58:00 PM
From my limited knowledge, the pattern looks good.
Looks like you just bought whole new posi carrier too ?
67ss said
Oct 29, 2017
Yes I bought a whole kit from quick performance down in Iowa. Comes with posi, gears , and bearings, it was cheaper then trying to rebuild a posi and buy the other stuff.
jim larson said
Oct 29, 2017
So do you have an eaton posi for sale.
67ss said
Oct 30, 2017
jim larson wrote:
So do you have an eaton posi for sale.
Sorry jim the eaton posi I have is going to go in the other 12 bolt rear end I have in the shed.
67ss said
Nov 5, 2017
Rear end is all together except for brakes. It is nice Gm made many parts interchangeable as the camaro gave up its moser axles for the Chevelle. Crazy you say, there is a method to my madness as the camaro rear end is getting rear disc brakes. Most new axles come drilled for 1/2 inch studs to make it easier to run longer and stronger studs.
Well I started tearing into the 12 bolt for the chevelle. Needs everything of coarse but I wanted to get it apart to start cleaning everything. I also wanted to make sure the 11 inch drum brake setup was going to work. Everything bolted right up so all is good on that concern. Here is a couple pics.
I'm curious also, will the 11" brake fit a 14" rim?
I've been waiting for you to start on the 300.
Karl
My 66 Impala has 11 " rear brakes. 65-70 12 bolt is all the same. The Chevelle and Impala baking plates will not inter change due to the different bolt hole pattern.
I have plans to cut the ends off from the Chevelle housing and welding on Impala ends that will accept press on brgs and eliminate the "C" clip axles then install the 11" brakes. I am a bit concerned about welding the ends on without the alignment tools however.
Impala housing?
Mitch the brakes came off an 89 caprice cop car with an 8.5 10 bolt. I believe anything fullsize wagon around that same vintage had the 11 brakes as well.
Kevin I have no reason to believe this would not fit a 14 inch rim. Maybe Bob can chime in on his Impala what size rims he has. I don't have a set of drums yet to try and test fit a rim over everything.
Kevin 14s were standard on the 66 with the 11 drums, with 11.5 front discs 15" wheels were needed.
Had to look again at the picture, didn`t see the ears for the upper control arm the first time. Cool upgrade.
Drums for 73-74 chevelle wagon shows 11" drum with 5 x 4 3/4 bolt pattern. This is what I was going to order.
The 65-70 Impala rear drum is 11x2 with 4 3/4 bolt pattern.
I can bring one to the brunch if you would like to check the fit.
If you don't need it back in a hurry yea that would be great.
Will do, see you there.
Made some more progress. Got parts sand blasted.
Modified the upper control arm for the 12 bolt. Boxed in the lower control arms.
Got the rear end and transmission crossmember painted. Ran out of time to get everything else painted, maybe next weekend.
Good progress. Are you going to add a rear sway bar? I added one from a 68 chevelle. I think that 68 was the first year for a rear sway bar in a chevelle. I think it made a nice difference, at least my mind is telling me that. By any chance did you see the lower front control arm modification that a guy in TC posted to get more caster and retain what looks like original upper and lower control arms? His user ID is AZCamino. I saw them in person at his home in Glendale this past January.
No I do not plan on adding a sway bar at this point in time. Just wanted to box the arms for the strength. I am also going to make my own plate and box the tops arms as well.
Yes I did see the post on the person modifying the front control arms. I don't know it seems a little scary to me to be cutting those up and then welding a piece like that back together. I just have bad visions of the welds not holding and the car crashing.
Bruce seemed pretty confident about his welding that he said he had been doing for 50+ years. He had boxed the lower control arms since they have been known to crack. Boxed rear uppers and lowers with a sway bar. He seemed pretty safety conscious, duel master cylinder with disc brakes both front and rear ones from a camaro that he had modified. Frame and engine was completely done. New roller hyd cam, lifters, and roller rockers. Looks completely stock with no headers. He was expecting around 450HP/450 torque. All that was left was the paint and interior. El Camino was stripped to bare metal and not a spot of rust though out. I think he and Karl are cut from the same cloth, when looking at their El Camino's
My '67 GTO had factory "reinforced" upper control arms.
Not much to it. I'm certain you can do better.
Finally worked on boxing the rear upper control arms this weekend.
Wow, I'll say you boxed them...
Are you confidant the side won't collapse when you press the bushing in ..
The thought crossed my mind at one point, but I don't think it should be a problem. I can freeze the bushing to make it slip in easier.
Very cool, nice work. I sure wish I knew something more about 12 bolts. I'm gonna put new gears and mine it's just something that I am not experienced in and don't have the knowledge. I'm envious
How many steering columns does it take to build one good one? Apparently the answer is three. Looks like all I should need is a lower column bearing and painting it the correct color.
More parts came today for the Chevelle.
Uh oh, body bushings. We stripping the frame at Karl's in January...
Strip it, sand blast, detail, shorten, powdercoat, ready to go!
That is a negative on stripping the frame. Going to try and slip new bushings into the car as it is hoping it will help transmission to tunnel clearance.
Youmight want to put an extra bushing just in front of the rear wheels. Most Chevelle’s didn’t come with one there;but there is a change nut and space for one. I assume you have the trans crossmember installeded correctly with correct trans mount, etc.
As for a missing bushing, I've always found a bushing on a '66 in that location, but some '67's had a solid rubber puck as a spacer there and on top of the rear axle crossmember.
Found this on Craigslist, nice used shifter handle for the conversion.
You gonna run a Muncie ? I think Hurst has a shifter that the original handle will bolt onto to look stock.
I ran a hurst shifter with a muncie handle for about 3 yrs. Once I got the original rods, levers, and shifter gate, I took the old competition plus hurst with rods and levers out. I have hear that the shifter that was used in 64- 67 is much better than the 68 and up muncie shifter.
Nope Richmond 5 speed. Yes I will make a bracket to mate this handle to a different shifter body.
When does the tunnel butchery begin...
In 66 they used a off white ball on the bench seats. Repo balls available. Some repo are the wrong size threads, I think originals are 9/16th fine thread. Originals quite rare. I just remember I have an original lever and ball along with the shifter gate for a muncie.
Yea I thought the ball was white and now you confirmed it. I don't know what ball I am going to run at this point, If the one off the richmond fits I may use it so the shift pattern is correct.
Almost done setting up the rear end. Fyi I found out 99+ chevy truck with 8.6 rear end uses the same thin shims as the early 12 bolts. Got some from the dealer but they are not cheap.
Spent some time with the rear end today working on the pattern.
-- Edited by 67ss on Saturday 28th of October 2017 08:58:00 PM
From my limited knowledge, the pattern looks good.
Looks like you just bought whole new posi carrier too ?
Yes I bought a whole kit from quick performance down in Iowa. Comes with posi, gears , and bearings, it was cheaper then trying to rebuild a posi and buy the other stuff.
So do you have an eaton posi for sale.
Sorry jim the eaton posi I have is going to go in the other 12 bolt rear end I have in the shed.
Rear end is all together except for brakes. It is nice Gm made many parts interchangeable as the camaro gave up its moser axles for the Chevelle. Crazy you say, there is a method to my madness as the camaro rear end is getting rear disc brakes. Most new axles come drilled for 1/2 inch studs to make it easier to run longer and stronger studs.
Hmmmm....what's happening with the Camaro that it will need 1/2" studs...
I never thought the axles would interchange with those 2 models. I assumed the Chevelle would be longer.
http://www.moserengineering.com/12-bolt-30-spline-fits-1967-69-camaro-1965-67-chevelle-1968-76-nova.item
It is easier to find longer studs in 1/2 then 7/16.
Or can you drill out the current wheels for the larger stud/nut ?
Wheels are no problem, just checked 4 or 5 different stile steel wheel, lots of clearance with 1/2" studs.
Some drums may need to be drilled however.