Picked up a 200R4 last night in Rochester with a recent rebuild and the converter. It came out of an '86 SS Monte Carlo that the guy still had in the garage. Looks like that conversion will be my winter project.
Just need to pick up the TV conversion kit from Bowtie Overdrives, the shifter conversion, from Shiftworks, and it should bolt in since it's replacing a TH350 that uses the back holes of the cross member, and the same driveshaft.
Thought I better snag it as these are getting harder to find.
That should help the R's on the highway, as well as a deeper first gear out of the hole.
BLyke said
Nov 3, 2013
looks like a good project Stan, I will be following the conversion. i guess this will go a a little faster than the one you tackled last year?
67ss said
Nov 4, 2013
I thought you were going manual transmission?
SShink said
Nov 4, 2013
67ss wrote:
I thought you were going manual transmission?
Chris, I'm enjoying not shifting since this is more of a cruiser ride, but still wanted overdrive.
Yeah Bruce, after last winter, this should be pretty straightforward and not take near as long.
cooz65 said
Nov 4, 2013
I like this! a lot! It has probably been the best mod to my elky that I have done to date. If by chance you run into any problems, let me know as I feel like I became an expert in this field after all my summer time research. Are you going to use the lock-up converter or non-locking?
bowtie said
Nov 4, 2013
I thought the shiftworks kit was very simple and works well. Have had it for @ 10 years or so now.
SShink said
Nov 4, 2013
cooz65 wrote:
I like this! a lot! It has probably been the best mod to my elky that I have done to date. If by chance you run into any problems, let me know as I feel like I became an expert in this field after all my summer time research. Are you going to use the lock-up converter or non-locking?
Thanks Steven. I know your install worked out well, and that only motiviated me to find another 200R4. I had one in the last Chevelle behind a 402 big block, and it worked out really well.
I'm going to buy the TCI controller to use the electronic lockout. Need to do some more research on that before pulling the trigger.
67ss said
Nov 4, 2013
In my opinion nobody makes a good control for TCC on carbed cars. They all basically lock up when in fourth gear and will not unlock unless you apply the brake or downshift. Their is nothing to sense load to make it unlock for slight acceleration. I had John at Master remove TCC on the 700 I put in the 55 and love it. The 200-300 RPM difference without lock up is not really noticed and no mess of wiring to add or hook up. Yes it will require a different torque converter but if you are also still thinking of the engine swap you may want to tailor the converter for that anyway. With the tranny out now would be the time to think about having it removed.
SShink said
Nov 4, 2013
67ss wrote:
In my opinion nobody makes a good control for TCC on carbed cars. They all basically lock up when in fourth gear and will not unlock unless you apply the brake or downshift. Their is nothing to sense load to make it unlock for slight acceleration. I had John at Master remove TCC on the 700 I put in the 55 and love it. The 200-300 RPM difference without lock up is not really noticed and no mess of wiring to add or hook up. Yes it will require a different torque converter but if you are also still thinking of the engine swap you may want to tailor the converter for that anyway. With the tranny out now would be the time to think about having it removed.
Yes, John at MT did the same thing on the last 200R4 he built for me. No electronics. All pressure driven with the larger converter, and it worked nice. I'm going to talk to him about giving this one a once over, and I'll get his thoughts on the lock up vs. non-lock up.
And Chris, I did print out the email on the engine build again this weekend and am putting some more thought into it.
Jon H said
Nov 5, 2013
I am sure John will say no lock up. Left off on mine and I love it. Pushrod was the one that convinced me.
Lost in the 60s said
Nov 5, 2013
No lock-up on my 200r4 that John built either. That 4 speed auto is the chiznits...
The Bowtie adaptor kit is really nice. Simple to install.
One thing I would recommend is to measure your frame to make certain the cross member can move back 3" from where it is now. That's about how much I had to modify mine in the '38 since I couldn't move it on the frame...
SShink said
Nov 5, 2013
Lost in the 60s wrote:
One thing I would recommend is to measure your frame to make certain the cross member can move back 3" from where it is now. That's about how much I had to modify mine in the '38 since I couldn't move it on the frame...
When I installed the 200R4 in the last blue Chevelle, I used a TH350 drive shaft with no mods, and the cross member went into the last two aft holes without having to drill new ones. It's a pretty slick install.
I decoded the trans serial tag, and from what i can tell, the 861 stands for built in 86 on first shift....CZ = Monte Carlo SS H/O w/3.73 gears.....F=200r4........and 0474 is the production number. This all checks out with what the seller told me and what I saw in the Monte in his garage. Thanks to Steven and Mitch for the info from his post on decoding the trans he bought. I've also reviewed his post and picked up a couple of tips regarding the lockup vs. non-lockup.
Steven, in your post you mentioned with the lockup kit, the trans works fine under throttle when shifting, but it was searching some when decellerating or at slower speeds. Sounds like that is what some are describing by using the lockup kit. Did you resolve that, or are you living with it for now by using the manual switch to shut off the lockup until you get up to highway speeds?
dashboard said
Nov 5, 2013
Stan, what gears are in the rear end? If you had something in the 3.4 to 3.8 range with that transmission and peppy small block you might find the best of both acceleration and economy. Just right for top up or down driving.
cooz65 said
Nov 5, 2013
I'm just living with it for now using a manual switch. The only problem that I really have with the electronic lock-up is in town. It shifts into OD way to early and bogs the engine down to 1000 RPM's. So I flip the switch to unlock the converter, give it that extra rpms and good to go. If I'm accelerating up to 60 at a decent click, it feels like it shifts when it should and doesn't bog the engine down. If I remember right, B&M and maybe another company, makes an electronic lock-up kit that runs off of the speedo cable. Once the unit hits the speed at which you want the converter to lock-up or unlock, it then sends the power to the converter. I would have gone with this set-up, but they were a little bit more expensive than what I was looking for. Here's the link for that http://www.jegs.com/p/B-M/B-M-Converter-Lock-Up-Control/748070/10002/-1 When I installed mine, I did have to make new brackets for the cross-member to sit on, so hopefully you don't have that problem. When I had talked with John, he also recommended no lock up, but for myself that was going to add the extra price of a new converter, and honestly, I can't really say anything bad about the lockup besides it kicking in too early.
SShink said
Dec 27, 2013
Finally got around to stopping by Master Trans and talking to John today. Gotta love the guy... when I explained what I bought and what had been done to it, he said '... put it in the car and try it.' He uses the same tips/tricks and valve body upgrades that have been done to it, so he said as long as it was done by a professional, it should be o.k. He said the 2-3 hours of tear down and inspection probably aren't worth it. If I get it in and have issues, he said he'd be happy to look at it then. It's great working with a business that only reccommends what you need, versus what they could sell you.
He recommended the B & M lock up kit over the TCI one, so I'll be spending a little bit more but will have better adjustability to the lock up rpm, and no cycling between rpm's. Here's the one I'm going with:
Provides control of converter lockup through vehicle speed on GM transmissions with a lockup converter. Eliminates converter lock and unlock cycling and premature unwanted converter lockup avoiding engine lugging and spark knock. Provides lockup at highway speeds for fuel economy. Can be used for converter lockup operation when converting a non-lockup equipped vehicle to a lock up style transmission and converter. Provides dash mounted control to govern converter lockup at any speed between 30 and 90 mph. LED tells whether converter is locked or unlocked. Fits GM TH200, TH350, TH700R4, 4L60, & 200R4.
Picked up a 200R4 last night in Rochester with a recent rebuild and the converter. It came out of an '86 SS Monte Carlo that the guy still had in the garage. Looks like that conversion will be my winter project.
Just need to pick up the TV conversion kit from Bowtie Overdrives, the shifter conversion, from Shiftworks, and it should bolt in since it's replacing a TH350 that uses the back holes of the cross member, and the same driveshaft.
Thought I better snag it as these are getting harder to find.
That should help the R's on the highway, as well as a deeper first gear out of the hole.
looks like a good project Stan, I will be following the conversion. i guess this will go a a little faster than the one you tackled last year?
I thought you were going manual transmission?
Chris, I'm enjoying not shifting since this is more of a cruiser ride, but still wanted overdrive.
Yeah Bruce, after last winter, this should be pretty straightforward and not take near as long.
Thanks Steven. I know your install worked out well, and that only motiviated me to find another 200R4. I had one in the last Chevelle behind a 402 big block, and it worked out really well.
I'm going to buy the TCI controller to use the electronic lockout. Need to do some more research on that before pulling the trigger.
In my opinion nobody makes a good control for TCC on carbed cars. They all basically lock up when in fourth gear and will not unlock unless you apply the brake or downshift. Their is nothing to sense load to make it unlock for slight acceleration. I had John at Master remove TCC on the 700 I put in the 55 and love it. The 200-300 RPM difference without lock up is not really noticed and no mess of wiring to add or hook up. Yes it will require a different torque converter but if you are also still thinking of the engine swap you may want to tailor the converter for that anyway. With the tranny out now would be the time to think about having it removed.
Yes, John at MT did the same thing on the last 200R4 he built for me. No electronics. All pressure driven with the larger converter, and it worked nice. I'm going to talk to him about giving this one a once over, and I'll get his thoughts on the lock up vs. non-lock up.
And Chris, I did print out the email on the engine build again this weekend and am putting some more thought into it.
No lock-up on my 200r4 that John built either. That 4 speed auto is the chiznits...
The Bowtie adaptor kit is really nice. Simple to install.
One thing I would recommend is to measure your frame to make certain the cross member can move back 3" from where it is now. That's about how much I had to modify mine in the '38 since I couldn't move it on the frame...
When I installed the 200R4 in the last blue Chevelle, I used a TH350 drive shaft with no mods, and the cross member went into the last two aft holes without having to drill new ones. It's a pretty slick install.
I decoded the trans serial tag, and from what i can tell, the 861 stands for built in 86 on first shift....CZ = Monte Carlo SS H/O w/3.73 gears.....F=200r4........and 0474 is the production number. This all checks out with what the seller told me and what I saw in the Monte in his garage. Thanks to Steven and Mitch for the info from his post on decoding the trans he bought. I've also reviewed his post and picked up a couple of tips regarding the lockup vs. non-lockup.
Steven, in your post you mentioned with the lockup kit, the trans works fine under throttle when shifting, but it was searching some when decellerating or at slower speeds. Sounds like that is what some are describing by using the lockup kit. Did you resolve that, or are you living with it for now by using the manual switch to shut off the lockup until you get up to highway speeds?
I'm just living with it for now using a manual switch. The only problem that I really have with the electronic lock-up is in town. It shifts into OD way to early and bogs the engine down to 1000 RPM's. So I flip the switch to unlock the converter, give it that extra rpms and good to go. If I'm accelerating up to 60 at a decent click, it feels like it shifts when it should and doesn't bog the engine down. If I remember right, B&M and maybe another company, makes an electronic lock-up kit that runs off of the speedo cable. Once the unit hits the speed at which you want the converter to lock-up or unlock, it then sends the power to the converter. I would have gone with this set-up, but they were a little bit more expensive than what I was looking for. Here's the link for that http://www.jegs.com/p/B-M/B-M-Converter-Lock-Up-Control/748070/10002/-1 When I installed mine, I did have to make new brackets for the cross-member to sit on, so hopefully you don't have that problem. When I had talked with John, he also recommended no lock up, but for myself that was going to add the extra price of a new converter, and honestly, I can't really say anything bad about the lockup besides it kicking in too early.
Finally got around to stopping by Master Trans and talking to John today. Gotta love the guy... when I explained what I bought and what had been done to it, he said '... put it in the car and try it.' He uses the same tips/tricks and valve body upgrades that have been done to it, so he said as long as it was done by a professional, it should be o.k. He said the 2-3 hours of tear down and inspection probably aren't worth it. If I get it in and have issues, he said he'd be happy to look at it then. It's great working with a business that only reccommends what you need, versus what they could sell you.
He recommended the B & M lock up kit over the TCI one, so I'll be spending a little bit more but will have better adjustability to the lock up rpm, and no cycling between rpm's. Here's the one I'm going with:
Provides control of converter lockup through vehicle speed on GM transmissions with a lockup converter. Eliminates converter lock and unlock cycling and premature unwanted converter lockup avoiding engine lugging and spark knock. Provides lockup at highway speeds for fuel economy. Can be used for converter lockup operation when converting a non-lockup equipped vehicle to a lock up style transmission and converter. Provides dash mounted control to govern converter lockup at any speed between 30 and 90 mph. LED tells whether converter is locked or unlocked.
Fits GM TH200, TH350, TH700R4, 4L60, & 200R4.
http://www.jegs.com/i/B%26amp%3BM/130/70244/10002/-1
I'll probably hold off removing the TH350 until later in Jan. as I've got some travel coming up for work, so stay tuned.