Hey guys I am a new guy hear and John D has told me all about the club and how awesome you guys are. I'm hoping to make it down next saturday for your meeting and hopefully get to meet some of you. I was hoping you could help me out as well, I have done my homework but I just want to ask a few simple questions to check my answers. Currently I have a th350 and am looking at putting in a 700r4. According to this website http://www.tciauto.com/tc/trans-dim/ my overall length of the 350 is 30 11/16" long (i do have the 9" tailshaft) and the 700r4 is 30 3/4" long. So short of moving the crossmember back 2", everything should bolt up, without any modifications to the driveshaft? Also I have a B & M shifter with D,2,1 for gear selection. Is there a way to make this work with the overdrive transmission? Also quick history on the 700r4 I would be swapping in. It is out of a v8, 4wd truck, that was rebuilt 7000 miles ago and the guy is asking $250 for it. Good deal? Thanks guys in advance. I'm just a kid with a whole lot to learn in this awesome hobby.
cooz65 said
May 12, 2013
Looks like I forgot one important piece of information. From some quick reading it sounds like the tailshaft on a 4wd tranny is very different from the 2wd and will not work.
John D said
May 12, 2013
Yes it is!
Oh... Welcome to the Forum!!
It's not just the housing extension, the steel mutha output shaft is different. The trans would have to be dis-assembled and the shaft changed to 2wd, and a new housing procured. Pass on this one.
You are correct on the "bolt-in-ness" of the gearbox. It will physically replace the 350, and usually a love-tap or two with a mallet will take car of any tunnel clearance issues. Most guys just drill 4 new holes in the framerail ears for the crossmember mounting, and you'll need to shorten the E-brake cable "J" hook a few inches. The converter should bolt right up.
Driveshaft is a slip-fit, no mods necessary. The 1/16" difference isn't an issue (there's probably that much variance in mfg's error car to car).
cooz65 said
May 12, 2013
Alright so new proposition. Here is a question for you guys Here is a 86 700r4 out of a firebird (http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/cs...799462143.html) but if I do have to cut the the driveshaft (actually sounds like I have the short 6" driveshaft, dad measured wrong, should have let the college student measure) it would be roughly 100 bucks to cut and balance the driveshaft, it doesn't come with a torque converter so another 200 bucks (on the cheap end unless I can find something cheap) plus the cost of the tranny for $175 which then adds up to $475. Am I better off buying a brand new 700r4 for $1000 (again roughly) or trying to find a 200r4 (not easy to find in these necks of the woods) that would slip right in....decisions decisions...
SShink said
May 13, 2013
Welcome to the forum Steven! Sounds like you are a little younger than most of the members, but that's cool. We need more younger folks to keep the interest in one of the coolest cars Chevy built in the 60's and 70's.
Check out Tom (Gearlube forum name) posts in this section on his 383 and 7004R trans swap. He is going through exactly what you are researching. His current post is titled 'First Day of my Chevelle assembly), and he should be updating again soon. He did mention that the driveshaft needed to be shortened, so that IS part of the swap.
There are pros and cons to both the 2004R and 7004R swaps. If you search this forum you find a few posts where I installed a 2004R for the following reasons:
-Found a core for $125 in WI, but had to take Dashboard (Kevin) with me for his Naval combat training as it was at a crack house and those guys were wacky!
-The 2004R is a near match in length for the TH350 so it was basically a drop in with the same driveshaft. I moved the cross member to the rear most holes, and it worked out great
-The 2004R has a higher 1st gear, and the gear spacing is closer than a 7004R, so able to use the power band of the engine more effectively. It also has a slightly deeper overdrive gear of 0.67 vs. 0.73 if I remember right.
-I had Master Trans in Rosemount rebuild the core and it ran $1500 including the torque converter. John there did a great job and made sure it matched up to the big block in front of it. Tom had his 7004R also built by Master Trans
The 7004R is a good trans, and I'm not bashing it, so lot's to think about. I suggest calling John at Master Transmission in Rosemount and talking it over with him. He'll give you the straight scoop, and won't try to sell you something you don't need.
Otherwise, have fun with the project, and hope to meet you Saturday!
Stan
Lost in the 60s said
May 13, 2013
Yup, welcome to the madness....
Either the 200 or 700 will need a TV cable setup and a mounting plate for the carb end too. They are available from Bowtie Overdrives but run another couple hundred bucks.... just sayin', there will be more "residual" costs involved with the overdrive swap.
Depending on the rear gear ratio, John may or may not recommend a lock-up converter. I had him build a 200 for me a couple months back and based on the 3.08 ratio of the axle I will install, we went with an 1800 rpm stall, non-lock up converter. If you are running deep gears the 700 will shift very quickly from 1st to 2nd because 1st is a deep reduction too.
Where are you that a 200r4 is hard to find ? I bought 2 in Duluth last December.
gearlube said
May 13, 2013
Hey welcome! I will have lots of photos to upload and share on my other post tomorrow. But I can cover my experience on the tranny. I had a th350 in mine. I switched to the 700r4 that I had built. I looked around for a while for a used one, but just had issues because newer trans need a lot of mods to make them work with a mechanical speedo for instance. It installs just like any other trans. I had to move the cross member back a few inches and re-drill new holes of the frame rails. Used the same bolts and trans mount.
I have a 12 bolt rear end and the drive shaft is 3 1/8th to long. I had my drive shaft done at proven force. It cost $121 to have it shortened and balanced with new u-joints front and back. They gave me a yoke to be able to take final measurements. You put in the yoke. Shove it all the way in and then pull it out 1 inch. Then you measure from the half way point on the yoke end circles to the front caps on the rear end. For me it was exactly 52". Then I emailed them that and they completed it. They turned it around in 24 hours too!
As far as the shifter I bought the 3 speed to 4 speed kit from http://www.shiftworks.com/chevelle-68-72.htm it includes everything you need. I also bought their shift cable from them too. Total cost was $164
As for the TV cable John from Master Trans suggested the Bowtie kit that is self. Adjustable. Here is the link. Includes the cable and all the hardware for the carb. http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog.php?Action=GETSUBCAT&CATID=WA3A3A1 Kit is $129
Hope this helps. One thing I have learned over many cars. Get the right tools and parts for the job. Don't skimp on the trans and don't order a trans from one of the Internet companies. I think I paid $1100 for my 700R4 and he provided the core.
I live in Farmington and if you want to come out and check it out, come on over beer is cold.
cooz65 said
May 13, 2013
Currently I go to school in Duluth, but am originally from Forest Lake. I have been looking on craigslist and car-part.com for a transmission. Ideally I would like to find something that I can put in right now, run for a couple of years and then do a rebuild (slowly gathering parts for a 383 build). My biggest reason for the search for an overdrive is I have 3.73 gears in the back and so at 60mph, I'm spinning 3000rpm (very noisy and awful gas mileage even for the lil 283). I have done a lot of reading on the 200r4 vs the 700r4 and I know there is no clear cut winner between the two, but from what I can gather, I am leaning towards the 200r4 for all the reasons that SShink posted (thank you by the way) with the biggest reason being it would slide right in place of the 350.I just have not been able to find one that doesn't have 300,000 miles on it and already needing a rebuild. Being in college, EVERYTHING is on a budget, but that hasn't stopped me from scrounging around and trying to make things work.
cooz65 said
May 13, 2013
Hey gearlube, what made you decide on the 700r4 over the 200r4? I am curious because right now I have a 283, but am planning on building a 383 with roughly 400hp (this is once I get out of college and have what everyone else calls a steady income).
Lost in the 60s said
May 13, 2013
cooz65 wrote:
Hey gearlube, what made you decide on the 700r4 over the 200r4? I am curious because right now I have a 283, but am planning on building a 383 with roughly 400hp (this is once I get out of college and have what everyone else calls a steady income).
His 383 is dyno'd at around 435hp ??
With your rear gears, I strongly recommend a 200 for the better gearing. Finding an used one to drop in is going to be difficult, unless it has already been rebuilt. They haven't been produced since the late 80's.
Lost in the 60s said
May 13, 2013
gearlube wrote:
John from Master Trans is awesome. And he does not charge for advice. I would give him a call. He is a true car guy first! You learn a lot from advice...
I'll second that !!! he tried to talk me out of the hardened parts because my engine is almost stock right now but I wanted it built to handle anything I would throw in later. Cost me more but I don't have to backtrack if/when I put big power in it.
-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Monday 13th of May 2013 08:59:26 AM
gearlube said
May 13, 2013
Cooz65 - Honestly is came down to cost. The 200's are more expensive and hard to come by. Plus I am running 500 HP and a 3.90 rear end gear. It what John from Master Trans recommended. The 200 has advantages that it is the same size as the TH350 though. My 700R4 was built with heavy duty synchro's and shift kit. I think in this case if you can find a cheaper 200, then go for it. It is better than a 700R4. But for me like you budget and time was a concern. John from Master Trans is awesome. And he does not charge for advice. I would give him a call. He is a true car guy first! You learn a lot from advice...
SteveS said
May 13, 2013
I had a 700r4 before the LS1 swap. They say the gear split on the 200 is better, but if you don't have a lot of power now you might like the low first gear of the 700. It made my tired 350 feel like I gained 100 horse. A couple other things to check, try to get a 1987 or newer 700, they have upgraded internals. And, watch for the speedo output, later ones had electronic speedometers. They can be converted to cable, but it's an added expense.
Tim H said
May 13, 2013
Lost in the 60s wrote:
NOW, quit thinking about transmissions until AFTER finals..... you have plenty of time ahead of you to plan a build, padwan...
Ya listen to the old guy
He has wisdom with that age.
-- Edited by Tim H on Monday 13th of May 2013 06:53:44 PM
bowtie said
May 13, 2013
I'll play the other side....
I have a 400hp, 350 with 4.10s and I run a 700R4. 28" tall tire. Mine was originally built by a shop and ran quite well for the 10 years or so I drove it until I decided I needed a shift kit. I had Randy at Affordable Transmission in Brooklyn park do the install and I am quite happy with it. He also can do performance rebuilds and is a drag racer himself. The 700s have some issues, but are good without any serious upgrading to the 475hp-ish area. The 700s did go through a slight change, with the later era one being more desireable (spline count, stronger internals) but like anything still needs a performance rebuild to do the job well (Vette servo, clutches, new band, etc).
Tim H said
May 13, 2013
And some of us have more wisdom than others
I'm looking at buying a OLDSmobile.
-- Edited by Tim H on Monday 13th of May 2013 08:24:48 PM
gearlube said
May 13, 2013
Tim that is a dirty word here man!!!
You guys are old farts!!! But we wouldn't trade any of ya!!!!
Speaking of farts.......ahhhhhhhhhhh
oh ya...in that picture above kind of looks like Stan maybe??
-- Edited by gearlube on Monday 13th of May 2013 10:21:59 PM
cooz65 said
May 14, 2013
First off, let me start by saying thank you to everyone who has responded and helped me out. I really do appreciate it because without you "old" guys I would never learn as much as I have. Hopefully sometime this week I can give John a call, but it's finals week here at school and I'm doing the best I can to try and study. Here is a good article I found comparing the two http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=426&SID=6 Throughout the article they talk about how much stronger the 700 is, but it got me thinking, so many people are running the 200 they can't be that bad of a transmission when rebuilt.
-Bowtie - A fancy RPM calculator says that with your set up your spinning about 2200rpm at 65mph, Sound reasonable? The only reason I ask is that between the 200 with .67 OD and the 700 with .7 OD there is only about 100 rpm difference, which really wouldn't be noticeable. Just trying to get a feel for these two beasts.
-Lost in the 60's - You recommend the the 200 because I have a pretty low rear end. Is this for the benefit of overdrive or the gear from 1st to 2nd being so steep in the 700. This does worry me a little bit, but for the street it really shouldn't be a problem
-gearlube - Looking through your thread and it looks awesome! A lot of what I would like to do someday
Thanks again guys Steven
Lost in the 60s said
May 14, 2013
With the lower gear in the 700 and 3.73 in the rear, the trans will go thru 1st in about 60 ft. It's not all bad but the low ratio in 1st is kind of wasted. It is designed for a much taller rear ratio.
As far as strength, the 200 can be built for 450~475 hp/torque dependably. When the engine starts pushing the 500 range or above, the 700 is a better choice. You can change the rear gears down for better use of 1st in the trans but, of course, that adds more expense to the build.
NOW, quit thinking about transmissions until AFTER finals..... you have plenty of time ahead of you to plan a build, padwan...
Lost in the 60s said
May 14, 2013
Tim H wrote:
Lost in the 60s wrote:
NOW, quit thinking about transmissions until AFTER finals..... you have plenty of time ahead of you to plan a build, padwan...
Ya listen to the old guy
He has wisdom with that age.
-- Edited by Tim H on Monday 13th of May 2013 06:53:44 PM
Hey, he started it............he called us OLD.....
67ss said
May 14, 2013
I can only hope to aspire to the wisdom of you old farts some day.
bowtie said
May 14, 2013
67ss wrote:
I can only hope to aspire to the wisdom of you old farts some day.
Hey now, you're only 2 weeks younger than me! Or are you talking to all those people who could/did buy a Chevelle new? Then it's OK.
bowtie said
May 14, 2013
cooz65 wrote:
First off, let me start by saying thank you to everyone who has responded and helped me out. I really do appreciate it because without you "old" guys I would never learn as much as I have. Hopefully sometime this week I can give John a call, but it's finals week here at school and I'm doing the best I can to try and study. Here is a good article I found comparing the two http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=426&SID=6 Throughout the article they talk about how much stronger the 700 is, but it got me thinking, so many people are running the 200 they can't be that bad of a transmission when rebuilt.
-Bowtie - A fancy RPM calculator says that with your set up your spinning about 2200rpm at 65mph, Sound reasonable? The only reason I ask is that between the 200 with .67 OD and the 700 with .7 OD there is only about 100 rpm difference, which really wouldn't be noticeable. Just trying to get a feel for these two beasts. That's correct. Their final drive is about the same, and it rolls well in 4th. Keep in mind your converter lockup, which is another aspect of converting some people forget about.
-Lost in the 60's - You recommend the the 200 because I have a pretty low rear end. Is this for the benefit of overdrive or the gear from 1st to 2nd being so steep in the 700. This does worry me a little bit, but for the street it really shouldn't be a problem. What tire size are you running? A taller tire will help negate some of that 1st gear on the 700 (and essentially give you more tire contact for traction)
-gearlube - Looking through your thread and it looks awesome! A lot of what I would like to do someday
Thanks again guys Steven
also, re-reading your original post I saw you mentioned a truck vs car 700R4. I have a truck one in my car. Yes, you need to add the extension piece, then just get a yoke to match the output shaft. Simple deal, especially if your driveshaft needs to be shortened, they gotta cut an end off and anyway and re-balance it with new u-joints, swap in the new yoke.
Bowtieman427 said
May 15, 2013
Sent you a PM if still looking or considering a 700R4.
SShink said
May 15, 2013
Steven, a word of 'wisdom'... there were 2 different 200 transmissions. There is the standard 3 speed 200C version, and the 2004R that is the overdrive version. Don't ask me how I know other than I donated some aluminum to Master Trans' scrap pile after my first attempt at buying a 2004R...
-- Edited by SShink on Wednesday 15th of May 2013 08:27:42 PM
cooz65 said
May 15, 2013
Day off without any finals, and so that means time to relax and do some homework on things I actually enjoy!
Sorry about calling you guys "old" how does the phrase experienced sound? You have all "experienced" much more than I have in your "olden" days. Anyways....car talk!
You guys were right, John is an awesome guy who gave me some things to think about as well.
-The biggest thing that he said I could run into troubles with is the fact that the lil 283 has no low end torque/power (I would agree with him, my 283 feels even weaker than it but that's another problem) and so when it would drop to 4th, dropping the rpms down to 2000ish at 65, the engine might lug, and chug, and just not be happy. Once the 383 is built, none of this becomes an issue.
-If the case, would I really see any noticeable mpg increase (gas just keeps going up!), but bringing the rpm's down 1000 would sure make for a nicer ride.
-John also mentioned that he converts a lot of 200 and 700's over to nonlock up converters.....another thing to think about and another potential cost
-What kits are you guys running for the converter lock up? It sounds like there are a couple of different methods to go about this.
-And how hard are these lockup kits to install?
-Bowtie, I have 205/75/15, so about 27inches tall and without some tubbing, nothing much bigger is going to fit as much as I wish it would
Just found a 200r4 off of C.L. for $175, out of a 87 monte carlo ss, says in good working order, torque convert included- Caught my interest
Also Bowtieman427 has a 700 he would sell me and so now I have some options....and decisions as I continue to bang my head against the wall with all of this
bowtie said
May 15, 2013
Don't bang your head yet, you haven't even gotten to speedometer correction yet.
(I have some coil springs that would give you more than enough room for a taller tire....)
I had a B&M kit in mine when it was carbureted, used a Sonnax TV cable arm at the carb. (I might have a spare TV cable still too), we used a brake light switch that was for a cruise control car to drop the lockup on the converter when the brakes were applied. Mine is all now computer controlled.
Keep asking stuff. We all have our experiences (some of us younger guys have less :) ) but we're all willing to help!
John D said
May 15, 2013
Sorry about calling you guys "old" how does the phrase experienced sound? I'd prefer "seasoned"....
Lost in the 60s said
May 15, 2013
cooz65 wrote:
Day off without any finals, and so that means time to relax and do some homework on things I actually enjoy!
Sorry about calling you guys "old" how does the phrase experienced sound? You have all "experienced" much more than I have in your "olden" days. Anyways....car talk!
You guys were right, John is an awesome guy who gave me some things to think about as well.
-The biggest thing that he said I could run into troubles with is the fact that the lil 283 has no low end torque/power (I would agree with him, my 283 feels even weaker than it but that's another problem) and so when it would drop to 4th, dropping the rpms down to 2000ish at 65, the engine might lug, and chug, and just not be happy. Once the 383 is built, none of this becomes an issue.
-If the case, would I really see any noticeable mpg increase (gas just keeps going up!), but bringing the rpm's down 1000 would sure make for a nicer ride.
-John also mentioned that he converts a lot of 200 and 700's over to nonlock up converters.....another thing to think about and another potential cost
-What kits are you guys running for the converter lock up? It sounds like there are a couple of different methods to go about this.
-And how hard are these lockup kits to install?
-Bowtie, I have 205/75/15, so about 27inches tall and without some tubbing, nothing much bigger is going to fit as much as I wish it would
Just found a 200r4 off of C.L. for $175, out of a 87 monte carlo ss, says in good working order, torque convert included- Caught my interest
Also Bowtieman427 has a 700 he would sell me and so now I have some options....and decisions as I continue to bang my head against the wall with all of this
At that price, I doubt you will have much time to think about it. If I was in the market, it would be sold. I paid $165 for a rebuildable core and the 87 SS will have some of the good stuff already in it.
cooz65 said
May 15, 2013
haha alright, I can respect "seasoned" that sounds good to me
Bowtie- I would be interested in some coil springs as I wouldn't mind giving her a little bit or rake
He wasn't sure if it was the original transmission out of the car, but he was going to take some pictures for me so I could get a read on the ID tag to determine what it did come out of. I would agree that it will not be around long, as there was another 200r4 posted the day before at $350. It does seem like a good deal, and I am close to pulling the plug on it, I am just now a little scared to actually tackle this big of a project
Lost in the 60s said
May 16, 2013
The 200 is an easier install and in 87 it still has a cable for the speedo. All you would need extra is the mount for the TV cable at the carb. Don't be concerned about the converter locking for now. As John said, it may drop the rpm too much for your current engine.
If the seller is in doubt, you definitly want the tag number to know what it came from. Do you have the list of tag ID's ??
Tim H said
May 16, 2013
cooz65 wrote:
Sorry about calling you guys "old" how does the phrase experienced sound? You have all "experienced" much more than I have in your "olden" days. Anyways....car talk!
Oh I think we all enjoy it and it gives us a lead in to rib each other so I wouldn't worry about it one bit. It is good to see a younger generation enjoy the cars of the 60's and 70's. Besides some of us are old or at least older than others.
cooz65 said
May 16, 2013
Ya on the lock-up, it sounded like there is a clutch inside the converter that makes it a true 1:1, otherwise with a conventional converter there is about 300rpm of slipeage that takes place. And it also sounded like you really only use the lockup when cruising on the freeway, and if you don't use the lockup it can burn up the transmission quicker. So true I won't need it right away, but before I would do a whole lot of driving on the freeway I would need it. I think I'm starting to understand all of this lock-up talk....
Once I get the pictures and the numbers I was just going to do a simple google search to see what I can find. Do you have a good go to place for the ID's?
As for the speedometer gears, I haven't started to worry about that... I don't even know where to start because my current speedo doesn't always work, if it does work the needle bounces, and even at that, the speed isn't accurate at all. I just use the gps on my phone, the tach, or what feels like the right speed. I'm assuming the previous owner never made the proper adjustments once it went from the powerglide the 350.
Lost in the 60s said
May 16, 2013
This link has all the codes and applications. Scroll to the very bottom and read how the tags are Identified for year. This chart is a little hard to decifer but seems rather complete.
I too am a believer in Monster Transmission. I recently converted from a T400 to a 200-R4 in my '69. I have 450+HP in front of the 200 and am not concerned. John at MT said he has 600+HP cars with 200's in them and they hold up. I was told that the 700 is stronger from the factory but the 200 can be "built" stronger. Believe what you will. I went with the 200 as I liked the gear ratios. I don't need the deep first gear of the 700 for my use of the car. I can still roll the tires as long as I want off the line with the 200.
My advice is pick what you want and go for that build. It will cost a whole lot more down the line to do a second tranny.
As far as the "old guys" comment, those that deserve the remark here are either thick skinned enough to take it or they have no memory and forget what you said soon after anyway.
Good luck with your build.
Lost in the 60s said
May 16, 2013
Jon H wrote:
they have no memory and forget what you said soon after anyway.
Good luck with your build.
Who are you ??
Jon H said
May 16, 2013
Lost in the 60s wrote:
Jon H wrote:
they have no memory and forget what you said soon after anyway.
Good luck with your build.
Who are you ??
Who's asking?
bowtie said
May 16, 2013
A converter essentially shears the fluid within it, and the different designs let it happen at different rates. A lock-up converter (when locked) will not have the losses created by the converter slippage and also won't then have the heat build-up. I believe you can also direct-wire in a lockup switch if you really wanted to.
cooz65 said
May 16, 2013
Here is what he sent me.....
"The code on the aluminum and yellow tag is CZF The part# ID # on the tag is :240-871CZF0156"
from what i can tell, the 871 stands for built in 87 on first shift....CZ = Monte Carlo SS H/O.....F=200r4........and 0156 is the production number
for $175 can I go wrong with this? even if the guy is lying to me and the internals are shot and I don't end up using it....I should have no problem reselling it at $175 even as a core? but either way unless one of you "seasoned" vets start screaming saying this is a bad deal... I'm doing it!!!
Lost in the 60s said
May 16, 2013
cooz65 wrote:
Here is what he sent me.....
"The code on the aluminum and yellow tag is CZF The part# ID # on the tag is :240-871CZF0156"
from what i can tell, the 871 stands for built in 87 on first shift....CZ = Monte Carlo SS H/O.....F=200r4........and 0156 is the production number
for $175 can I go wrong with this? even if the guy is lying to me and the internals are shot and I don't end up using it....I should have no problem reselling it at $175 even as a core? but either way unless one of you "seasoned" vets start screaming saying this is a bad deal... I'm doing it!!!
Pull the pan and see if there is any scrapnel in it. If it's clean, it's a steal. That is the second most desirable 200r4 after the GN ones.
cooz65 said
May 16, 2013
The deal has been done! Well almost. The guy lives in Annandale, MN and so on Sunday, when I am moving to Eden Valley (by St. Cloud), I am going to stop by, take a look, and hand over the dough. He was nice enough to hold onto it for me until Sunday so I don't have to make an extra trip out there.
Alright now to understand the TV cable. Currently I am running a q-jet on my 283, (i have a holley street avenger 570, but the engine has never liked it, even after rebuilding it)
-it looks like these kits are specific the the carb you are running, for geometry sake, so if I order one for a q-jet, that will be the carb choice for a while then, correct?
-are you guys experienced in tuning these things. They sound pretty simple to set up, but if done incorrectly can burn up a transmission pretty quickly
I have heard some guys talk about a spring that needs to be replaced in the valve body? Something about the TV spring, or something?
Also I know I will want to replace the filter, and so a new gasket.
Am I missing anything else? (besides the speedo gears, with the current set-up I have now I know what gears I need, but who knows if all of that is going to stay the same, am I ok not even running a cable to it) I'm just trying to make sure all my ducks are in a row before really diving in. It's always a goal, probably won't happen, but I would like for there to be as little down time as possible so I can keep driving this summer.
Thanks guys
Jon H said
May 17, 2013
I was advised against the lock up by John at MT and one of our members who had it on his and found it to be a PIA and removed it at an additional cost resulting in a product he is now happy with. Maybe Craig S. can chime in here.
cooz65 said
May 23, 2013
Well I'm all moved in and I have to say living on a lake this summer is going to be awesome! On my way up to Eden Valley I picked up the tranny! Everything looks good! Now to start the install.
Before the transmission even goes in what should be done to it? I will be draining the fluid, replacing the gasket, and replace the rear seal.
It sounds like there is a rear bushing, should this be done as well?
What else am I overlooking internally that should be done before I even start this adventure?
Lock up: I've decided to continue to use the lock-up. For budget purposes, this will save me some money up-front, until a rebuild is in her future then I can decide then.
Tv Kit: Once I find out what model Q-jet I'm running, I'll order up that TV cable kit.
Speedo-not even going to worry about it right now, I know this sounds bad, but who knows if tire sizes, rear end, etc will be replaced in the future and it throws it all off anyways.
Torque Converter bolts-I'll have to order these as well
Shift-kit- Should I even bother with one right now? It may already have one as it sounded like the GN and Monte Carlo SS came with one from the factory?
Shifter-Going to call B&M tomorrow and see if they sell the individual plate to make my B&M Sport Shifter that is currently set up for a 3 speed work with overdrive. On summit racing, it says this shifter is compatible with the 200r4, I just have to figure out how.
I know I have a lot of questions, just trying to make sure all my ducks are in a row! It was good getting to meet some of you guys on saturday! Awesome club!
Lost in the 60s said
May 23, 2013
Sounds like you got a good deal.
Fresh fluid filter and SEALS, I believe there is a front seal too ? May not be servicable from the outside. Check the shaft seal, they like to dry out and leak over time too. New o-ring on the filler tube..... may as well try to keep the fluid inside rather than all over under the car.
Don't bother with a shift kit, it should handle what you have for now quite well.
Hook up the speedo and check it with a GPS. John at MT can build an adaptor to go between the cable and housing to correct it for pretty cheap.
Sorry I didn't get to meet you Sat. Between the weather and the price of gas, I stayed home and worked on my car.
Chris R said
May 23, 2013
If your looking for a cheap engine upgrade. Found this just now while browsing. I dont know the seller but might be able to check it out if you decide to pursue it further.
Ditto on Mitch's recommendations - rear seal, dipstick, AND do the front-pump/converter seal.
They're about $10, can be done easily, and can only be replaced with the trans out of the car.
The only a couple of gotcha's about the front pump seal: - (if the converter is still in place) Do it with the front of the trans hanging over the edge of the bench, with a drain pan on the floor. About 3 qts. of fluid will pour out. - Once the converter is out, be VERY careful prying the old seal out. Don't damage the machine-work where the seal seats against. - Get the new seal tapped into place and fully seated. - LUBE THE NEW SEAL! Slather it with fresh trans fluid, and use some vaseline on the sealing lips and the converter snout.
- CAREFULLY slide the converter into the new seal, and make sure it is fully seated into the transmission! There are 3 shafts/drives that need to engage within the converter. Gently press inward while turning the converter and it will eventually clunk all the way in. There should be barely enough room for your pinkie between the belhousing and the converter when it's all the way in.
cooz65 said
Jun 8, 2013
Alright guys, I'm on the move again!!! I need some help and advice before I go ahead and purchase anything. My first question is involving the TV Cable kits. I've done some looking and can't decided between the TV made EZ kit and the TCI auto kit.
here is my problem with the kit, I already have a 3/4" base plate under my carb, and the transmission I bought came with the a TV Cable so how do I pay $130 for a couple of brackets?
SO then I called TCI auto and here are the two parts that he said I would need
for a grand total of $60, I had read a couple of people who had used the TCI stuff and never had any problems with them so why is the TVMADEEZ kit so expensive? is it really worth that much more? or does anyone have any other tv kit ideas that would work?
is there a preference between these 3 kits, I know different members have used different kits, just trying to get a good understanding for the easiest kit.
Also just thought I would throw this out there, if anyone has any left over parts that are no longer in service and would like to get them out of your garage, let me know, I'd love to pay you to help clean out your garage.
Thanks Guys!
Bungy L-76 said
Jun 8, 2013
The Bowtieoverdrive kit is way better then the generic bracket and carb arm. The Bowtie carb arm is egg shaped and pulls the cable in a non-linear fashion. The generic bracket just pulls the cable out at the same rate and is not correct for the overdrive transmissions. The kit also has a correct TV spring that is installed in the valve body. This positions the TV plunger in the correct spot (even the factory springs are not centered) It also includes the TV cable which ups the price somewhat, but I would definitly spend the extra money (which is what I did). They invested a lot of R&D into this kit and it's the best on the market.
As for the lock-up kit, I don't know, I'm still researching that myself for my 2004R Bel-Air install. When I put a 700R4 into my Chevelle, I just used a B&M kit with a toggle switch. I'm not going to do that again, I'm for sure going with a lock-up TC but I want it to be all automatic.
cooz65 said
Jun 13, 2013
Parts have been PURCHASED!!! wahooooo!!!! and according to fedex tracker everything has arrived safely at home!!
Thanks guys for all the help and advice! I went ahead and bought a wiring kit from bowtie overdrives and if I add in a toggle switch, so that I can manually turn on and off the t.c. especially in town when it wants to go into overdrive, is this the correct place to put it?
John D said
Jun 13, 2013
That appears to be correct. The toggle will cut power to the solenoid, essentially duplicating what the brake switch does.
Oh... Welcome to the Forum!!
It's not just the housing extension, the steel mutha output shaft is different. The trans would have to be dis-assembled and the shaft changed to 2wd, and a new housing procured. Pass on this one.
You are correct on the "bolt-in-ness" of the gearbox. It will physically replace the 350, and usually a love-tap or two with a mallet will take car of any tunnel clearance issues. Most guys just drill 4 new holes in the framerail ears for the crossmember mounting, and you'll need to shorten the E-brake cable "J" hook a few inches. The converter should bolt right up.
Driveshaft is a slip-fit, no mods necessary. The 1/16" difference isn't an issue (there's probably that much variance in mfg's error car to car).
Welcome to the forum Steven! Sounds like you are a little younger than most of the members, but that's cool. We need more younger folks to keep the interest in one of the coolest cars Chevy built in the 60's and 70's.
Check out Tom (Gearlube forum name) posts in this section on his 383 and 7004R trans swap. He is going through exactly what you are researching. His current post is titled 'First Day of my Chevelle assembly), and he should be updating again soon. He did mention that the driveshaft needed to be shortened, so that IS part of the swap.
There are pros and cons to both the 2004R and 7004R swaps. If you search this forum you find a few posts where I installed a 2004R for the following reasons:
-Found a core for $125 in WI, but had to take Dashboard (Kevin) with me for his Naval combat training as it was at a crack house and those guys were wacky!
-The 2004R is a near match in length for the TH350 so it was basically a drop in with the same driveshaft. I moved the cross member to the rear most holes, and it worked out great
-The 2004R has a higher 1st gear, and the gear spacing is closer than a 7004R, so able to use the power band of the engine more effectively. It also has a slightly deeper overdrive gear of 0.67 vs. 0.73 if I remember right.
-I had Master Trans in Rosemount rebuild the core and it ran $1500 including the torque converter. John there did a great job and made sure it matched up to the big block in front of it. Tom had his 7004R also built by Master Trans
The 7004R is a good trans, and I'm not bashing it, so lot's to think about. I suggest calling John at Master Transmission in Rosemount and talking it over with him. He'll give you the straight scoop, and won't try to sell you something you don't need.
Otherwise, have fun with the project, and hope to meet you Saturday!
Stan
Yup, welcome to the madness....
Either the 200 or 700 will need a TV cable setup and a mounting plate for the carb end too. They are available from Bowtie Overdrives but run another couple hundred bucks.... just sayin', there will be more "residual" costs involved with the overdrive swap.
Depending on the rear gear ratio, John may or may not recommend a lock-up converter. I had him build a 200 for me a couple months back and based on the 3.08 ratio of the axle I will install, we went with an 1800 rpm stall, non-lock up converter. If you are running deep gears the 700 will shift very quickly from 1st to 2nd because 1st is a deep reduction too.
Where are you that a 200r4 is hard to find ? I bought 2 in Duluth last December.
I have a 12 bolt rear end and the drive shaft is 3 1/8th to long. I had my drive shaft done at proven force. It cost $121 to have it shortened and balanced with new u-joints front and back. They gave me a yoke to be able to take final measurements. You put in the yoke. Shove it all the way in and then pull it out 1 inch. Then you measure from the half way point on the yoke end circles to the front caps on the rear end. For me it was exactly 52". Then I emailed them that and they completed it. They turned it around in 24 hours too!
As far as the shifter I bought the 3 speed to 4 speed kit from http://www.shiftworks.com/chevelle-68-72.htm it includes everything you need. I also bought their shift cable from them too. Total cost was $164
As for the TV cable John from Master Trans suggested the Bowtie kit that is self. Adjustable. Here is the link. Includes the cable and all the hardware for the carb. http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog.php?Action=GETSUBCAT&CATID=WA3A3A1
Kit is $129
Hope this helps. One thing I have learned over many cars. Get the right tools and parts for the job. Don't skimp on the trans and don't order a trans from one of the Internet companies. I think I paid $1100 for my 700R4 and he provided the core.
I live in Farmington and if you want to come out and check it out, come on over beer is cold.
His 383 is dyno'd at around 435hp ??
With your rear gears, I strongly recommend a 200 for the better gearing. Finding an used one to drop in is going to be difficult, unless it has already been rebuilt. They haven't been produced since the late 80's.
I'll second that !!! he tried to talk me out of the hardened parts because my engine is almost stock right now but I wanted it built to handle anything I would throw in later. Cost me more but I don't have to backtrack if/when I put big power in it.
http://mastertransmission.com/
-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Monday 13th of May 2013 08:59:26 AM
Ya listen to the old guy
He has wisdom with that age.
-- Edited by Tim H on Monday 13th of May 2013 06:53:44 PM
I have a 400hp, 350 with 4.10s and I run a 700R4. 28" tall tire. Mine was originally built by a shop and ran quite well for the 10 years or so I drove it until I decided I needed a shift kit. I had Randy at Affordable Transmission in Brooklyn park do the install and I am quite happy with it. He also can do performance rebuilds and is a drag racer himself. The 700s have some issues, but are good without any serious upgrading to the 475hp-ish area. The 700s did go through a slight change, with the later era one being more desireable (spline count, stronger internals) but like anything still needs a performance rebuild to do the job well (Vette servo, clutches, new band, etc).
And some of us have more wisdom than others
I'm looking at buying a OLDSmobile.
-- Edited by Tim H on Monday 13th of May 2013 08:24:48 PM
Tim that is a dirty word here man!!!
You guys are old farts!!! But we wouldn't trade any of ya!!!!
Speaking of farts.......ahhhhhhhhhhh
oh ya...in that picture above kind of looks like Stan maybe??
-- Edited by gearlube on Monday 13th of May 2013 10:21:59 PM
-Bowtie - A fancy RPM calculator says that with your set up your spinning about 2200rpm at 65mph, Sound reasonable? The only reason I ask is that between the 200 with .67 OD and the 700 with .7 OD there is only about 100 rpm difference, which really wouldn't be noticeable. Just trying to get a feel for these two beasts.
-Lost in the 60's - You recommend the the 200 because I have a pretty low rear end. Is this for the benefit of overdrive or the gear from 1st to 2nd being so steep in the 700. This does worry me a little bit, but for the street it really shouldn't be a problem
-gearlube - Looking through your thread and it looks awesome! A lot of what I would like to do someday
Thanks again guys
Steven
With the lower gear in the 700 and 3.73 in the rear, the trans will go thru 1st in about 60 ft. It's not all bad but the low ratio in 1st is kind of wasted. It is designed for a much taller rear ratio.
As far as strength, the 200 can be built for 450~475 hp/torque dependably. When the engine starts pushing the 500 range or above, the 700 is a better choice. You can change the rear gears down for better use of 1st in the trans but, of course, that adds more expense to the build.
NOW, quit thinking about transmissions until AFTER finals.....
you have plenty of time ahead of you to plan a build, padwan...
Hey, he started it............he called us OLD.....
I can only hope to aspire to the wisdom of you old farts some day.
Hey now, you're only 2 weeks younger than me! Or are you talking to all those people who could/did buy a Chevelle new? Then it's OK.
also, re-reading your original post I saw you mentioned a truck vs car 700R4. I have a truck one in my car. Yes, you need to add the extension piece, then just get a yoke to match the output shaft. Simple deal, especially if your driveshaft needs to be shortened, they gotta cut an end off and anyway and re-balance it with new u-joints, swap in the new yoke.
Steven, a word of 'wisdom'... there were 2 different 200 transmissions. There is the standard 3 speed 200C version, and the 2004R that is the overdrive version. Don't ask me how I know other than I donated some aluminum to Master Trans' scrap pile after my first attempt at buying a 2004R...
-- Edited by SShink on Wednesday 15th of May 2013 08:27:42 PM
Day off without any finals, and so that means time to relax and do some homework on things I actually enjoy!
Sorry about calling you guys "old" how does the phrase experienced sound? You have all "experienced" much more than I have in your "olden" days. Anyways....car talk!
You guys were right, John is an awesome guy who gave me some things to think about as well.
-The biggest thing that he said I could run into troubles with is the fact that the lil 283 has no low end torque/power (I would agree with him, my 283 feels even weaker than it but that's another problem) and so when it would drop to 4th, dropping the rpms down to 2000ish at 65, the engine might lug, and chug, and just not be happy. Once the 383 is built, none of this becomes an issue.
-If the case, would I really see any noticeable mpg increase (gas just keeps going up!), but bringing the rpm's down 1000 would sure make for a nicer ride.
-John also mentioned that he converts a lot of 200 and 700's over to nonlock up converters.....another thing to think about and another potential cost
-What kits are you guys running for the converter lock up? It sounds like there are a couple of different methods to go about this.
-And how hard are these lockup kits to install?
-Bowtie, I have 205/75/15, so about 27inches tall and without some tubbing, nothing much bigger is going to fit as much as I wish it would
Just found a 200r4 off of C.L. for $175, out of a 87 monte carlo ss, says in good working order, torque convert included- Caught my interest
Also Bowtieman427 has a 700 he would sell me and so now I have some options....and decisions as I continue to bang my head against the wall with all of this
(I have some coil springs that would give you more than enough room for a taller tire....)
I had a B&M kit in mine when it was carbureted, used a Sonnax TV cable arm at the carb. (I might have a spare TV cable still too), we used a brake light switch that was for a cruise control car to drop the lockup on the converter when the brakes were applied. Mine is all now computer controlled.
Keep asking stuff. We all have our experiences (some of us younger guys have less :) ) but we're all willing to help!
I'd prefer "seasoned"....
At that price, I doubt you will have much time to think about it. If I was in the market, it would be sold. I paid $165 for a rebuildable core and the 87 SS will have some of the good stuff already in it.
haha alright, I can respect "seasoned" that sounds good to me
Bowtie- I would be interested in some coil springs as I wouldn't mind giving her a little bit or rake
Also would this kit be something of interest or comparable to what you had? This kit seems to be vacuum controlled while others are sensor related (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-376600/overview/)
He wasn't sure if it was the original transmission out of the car, but he was going to take some pictures for me so I could get a read on the ID tag to determine what it did come out of. I would agree that it will not be around long, as there was another 200r4 posted the day before at $350. It does seem like a good deal, and I am close to pulling the plug on it, I am just now a little scared to actually tackle this big of a project
The 200 is an easier install and in 87 it still has a cable for the speedo. All you would need extra is the mount for the TV cable at the carb. Don't be concerned about the converter locking for now. As John said, it may drop the rpm too much for your current engine.
If the seller is in doubt, you definitly want the tag number to know what it came from. Do you have the list of tag ID's ??
Oh I think we all enjoy it and it gives us a lead in to rib each other so I wouldn't worry about it one bit. It is good to see a younger generation enjoy the cars of the 60's and 70's. Besides some of us are old or at least older than others.
Once I get the pictures and the numbers I was just going to do a simple google search to see what I can find. Do you have a good go to place for the ID's?
As for the speedometer gears, I haven't started to worry about that... I don't even know where to start because my current speedo doesn't always work, if it does work the needle bounces, and even at that, the speed isn't accurate at all. I just use the gps on my phone, the tach, or what feels like the right speed. I'm assuming the previous owner never made the proper adjustments once it went from the powerglide the 350.
This link has all the codes and applications. Scroll to the very bottom and read how the tags are Identified for year. This chart is a little hard to decifer but seems rather complete.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070128173316/http://members.aol.com/powerrslid/thm2004r.html
I too am a believer in Monster Transmission. I recently converted from a T400 to a 200-R4 in my '69. I have 450+HP in front of the 200 and am not concerned. John at MT said he has 600+HP cars with 200's in them and they hold up. I was told that the 700 is stronger from the factory but the 200 can be "built" stronger. Believe what you will. I went with the 200 as I liked the gear ratios. I don't need the deep first gear of the 700 for my use of the car. I can still roll the tires as long as I want off the line with the 200.
My advice is pick what you want and go for that build. It will cost a whole lot more down the line to do a second tranny.
As far as the "old guys" comment, those that deserve the remark here are either thick skinned enough to take it or they have no memory and forget what you said soon after anyway.
Good luck with your build.
Who are you ??
Who's asking?
"The code on the aluminum and yellow tag is CZF The part# ID # on the tag is :240-871CZF0156"
from what i can tell, the 871 stands for built in 87 on first shift....CZ = Monte Carlo SS H/O.....F=200r4........and 0156 is the production number
for $175 can I go wrong with this? even if the guy is lying to me and the internals are shot and I don't end up using it....I should have no problem reselling it at $175 even as a core? but either way unless one of you "seasoned" vets start screaming saying this is a bad deal... I'm doing it!!!
Pull the pan and see if there is any scrapnel in it. If it's clean, it's a steal. That is the second most desirable 200r4 after the GN ones.
The deal has been done! Well almost. The guy lives in Annandale, MN and so on Sunday, when I am moving to Eden Valley (by St. Cloud), I am going to stop by, take a look, and hand over the dough. He was nice enough to hold onto it for me until Sunday so I don't have to make an extra trip out there.
Alright now to understand the TV cable. Currently I am running a q-jet on my 283, (i have a holley street avenger 570, but the engine has never liked it, even after rebuilding it)
-http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog.php?Action=GETSUBCAT&CATID=WA3A44
-it looks like these kits are specific the the carb you are running, for geometry sake, so if I order one for a q-jet, that will be the carb choice for a while then, correct?
-are you guys experienced in tuning these things. They sound pretty simple to set up, but if done incorrectly can burn up a transmission pretty quickly
Lock up kit
-http://www.700r4.com/tech/tcc/relay_install/diagram.shtml
-http://bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog_inc/viewitem.php?ITEMID=336
-again sounds pretty simple, plug and play
I have heard some guys talk about a spring that needs to be replaced in the valve body? Something about the TV spring, or something?
Also I know I will want to replace the filter, and so a new gasket.
Am I missing anything else? (besides the speedo gears, with the current set-up I have now I know what gears I need, but who knows if all of that is going to stay the same, am I ok not even running a cable to it) I'm just trying to make sure all my ducks are in a row before really diving in. It's always a goal, probably won't happen, but I would like for there to be as little down time as possible so I can keep driving this summer.
Thanks guys
Well I'm all moved in and I have to say living on a lake this summer is going to be awesome! On my way up to Eden Valley I picked up the tranny!
Everything looks good! Now to start the install.
Before the transmission even goes in what should be done to it? I will be draining the fluid, replacing the gasket, and replace the rear seal.
It sounds like there is a rear bushing, should this be done as well?
What else am I overlooking internally that should be done before I even start this adventure?
Lock up: I've decided to continue to use the lock-up. For budget purposes, this will save me some money up-front, until a rebuild is in her future then I can decide then.
Tv Kit: Once I find out what model Q-jet I'm running, I'll order up that TV cable kit.
Speedo-not even going to worry about it right now, I know this sounds bad, but who knows if tire sizes, rear end, etc will be replaced in the future and it throws it all off anyways.
Torque Converter bolts-I'll have to order these as well
Shift-kit- Should I even bother with one right now? It may already have one as it sounded like the GN and Monte Carlo SS came with one from the factory?
Shifter-Going to call B&M tomorrow and see if they sell the individual plate to make my B&M Sport Shifter that is currently set up for a 3 speed work with overdrive. On summit racing, it says this shifter is compatible with the 200r4, I just have to figure out how.
I know I have a lot of questions, just trying to make sure all my ducks are in a row! It was good getting to meet some of you guys on saturday! Awesome club!
Sounds like you got a good deal.
Fresh fluid filter and SEALS, I believe there is a front seal too ? May not be servicable from the outside. Check the shaft seal, they like to dry out and leak over time too. New o-ring on the filler tube..... may as well try to keep the fluid inside rather than all over under the car.
Don't bother with a shift kit, it should handle what you have for now quite well.
Hook up the speedo and check it with a GPS. John at MT can build an adaptor to go between the cable and housing to correct it for pretty cheap.
Sorry I didn't get to meet you Sat. Between the weather and the price of gas, I stayed home and worked on my car.
If your looking for a cheap engine upgrade. Found this just now while browsing. I dont know the seller but might be able to check it out if you decide to pursue it further.
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/pts/3809412190.html
They're about $10, can be done easily, and can only be replaced with the trans out of the car.
The only a couple of gotcha's about the front pump seal:
- (if the converter is still in place) Do it with the front of the trans hanging over the edge of the bench, with a drain pan on the floor. About 3 qts. of fluid will pour out.
- Once the converter is out, be VERY careful prying the old seal out. Don't damage the machine-work where the seal seats against.
- Get the new seal tapped into place and fully seated.
- LUBE THE NEW SEAL! Slather it with fresh trans fluid, and use some vaseline on the sealing lips and the converter snout.
- CAREFULLY slide the converter into the new seal, and make sure it is fully seated into the transmission! There are 3 shafts/drives that need to engage within the converter. Gently press inward while turning the converter and it will eventually clunk all the way in. There should be barely enough room for your pinkie between the belhousing and the converter when it's all the way in.
Alright guys, I'm on the move again!!! I need some help and advice before I go ahead and purchase anything. My first question is involving the TV Cable kits. I've done some looking and can't decided between the TV made EZ kit and the TCI auto kit.
Here is the tvmadeez kit
http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog_inc/viewitem.php?ITEMID=221
with instructions
http://www.tvmadeez.com/1905_cam/
here is my problem with the kit, I already have a 3/4" base plate under my carb, and the transmission I bought came with the a TV Cable so how do I pay $130 for a couple of brackets?
SO then I called TCI auto and here are the two parts that he said I would need
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-376710/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-376700
for a grand total of $60, I had read a couple of people who had used the TCI stuff and never had any problems with them so why is the TVMADEEZ kit so expensive? is it really worth that much more? or does anyone have any other tv kit ideas that would work?
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
My other question involves the torque converter lock up kits.
Here are a couple of different versions....
Speedo Cable
http://bmracing.com/?wpsc-product=converter-lockup-control-for-gm-automatic-trans-wlockup-converter-mechanical-speedometer
a vacuum line
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-376600
and a brake line (which looks the simplest plug and play)
http://bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog_inc/viewitem.php?ITEMID=336
is there a preference between these 3 kits, I know different members have used different kits, just trying to get a good understanding for the easiest kit.
Also just thought I would throw this out there, if anyone has any left over parts that are no longer in service and would like to get them out of your garage, let me know, I'd love to pay you to help clean out your garage.
Thanks Guys!
The Bowtieoverdrive kit is way better then the generic bracket and carb arm. The Bowtie carb arm is egg shaped and pulls the cable in a non-linear fashion. The generic bracket just pulls the cable out at the same rate and is not correct for the overdrive transmissions. The kit also has a correct TV spring that is installed in the valve body. This positions the TV plunger in the correct spot (even the factory springs are not centered) It also includes the TV cable which ups the price somewhat, but I would definitly spend the extra money (which is what I did). They invested a lot of R&D into this kit and it's the best on the market.
As for the lock-up kit, I don't know, I'm still researching that myself for my 2004R Bel-Air install. When I put a 700R4 into my Chevelle, I just used a B&M kit with a toggle switch. I'm not going to do that again, I'm for sure going with a lock-up TC but I want it to be all automatic.
Parts have been PURCHASED!!! wahooooo!!!! and according to fedex tracker everything has arrived safely at home!!
Thanks guys for all the help and advice! I went ahead and bought a wiring kit from bowtie overdrives and if I add in a toggle switch, so that I can manually turn on and off the t.c. especially in town when it wants to go into overdrive, is this the correct place to put it?