Derek, Jon, Chris (or others), what are the features of a true '69 SS Chevelle?
I'm looking at a '69 and I'm sure it's a clone, but would like to know what badges, gauges, suspension, etc. an SS usually has.
I know all the '70-72 differences, but not the '69's.
Thanks,
Stan
Derek69SS said
Jul 15, 2010
Daytona Yellow and Monoco Orange are "SS only" colors, so if the paint code is for either of those, it's an SS... that's the ONLY way to verify an SS from the trim tag.
For all the other colors, it really can't be "proven" without documentation or a #s matching engine.
Obvious clues are disc-brakes and 12-bolt, as they were standard with SS package, but optional on Malibus... F41 suspension was not standard on SS's in '69. Only around 500 '69 Chevelles were produced with F41.
Gauges were the same from Malibu to SS, except with optional tach, 5000rpm redline indicates smallblock equipped, 5500rpm indicates 325hp and 350hp 396s, and 6000rpm indicates 375hp 396.
Malibus had emblem holes in the rear quarter panel just ahead of the marker light, so if the quarters are original, you may be able to spot them being filled from inside the trunk.
SS's had trim rings around the front blinker lenses, but they're reproduced and everyone knows it, and they look better than the Malibu lenses (I have SS lenses on mine, just because I think they look better).
If it has the original fuel lines, a return line would indicate 325hp or 350hp 396. A 3/8" supply line with NO return line could be 375hp 396, or any of the smallblock 350 engines. Single 5/16" line would indicate 6cyl or 307.
One other thing that gets missed on a lot of clones is the bigblock steering shaft... Where the shaft bolts to the ragjoint, on a smallblock car, the flange is pressed onto the shaft. On a factory bigblock car, the flange is splined and bolted onto the shaft. (I can post a pic later, I have the pic on my home computer)
67ss said
Jul 15, 2010
Derek is right, on a 69 it is tough to know if it is a real SS unless there is a build sheet with the car. Obviously verifying engine deck pad numbers to the VIN could say if it is somewhat real but even those can be restamped. Most everything can be swapped on to clone it without knowing.
The car I just swapped the engine on is just a malibu but the owner wants to clone it. Its a shame as it is a number matching small block 4 speed car.
SShink said
Jul 15, 2010
Thanks guys.
Sounds like it's about as easy as cloning a '70-72.
Jon H said
Jul 15, 2010
Derek hit everything that I know about. The following is off the TC web site>
From 1969 on, the SS was no longer a separate model. Instead, it was now an "SS" option package added to a 300 Deluxe model, Malibu model, or El Camino Custom model. 1969 was the only model year that the SS package could be ordered on the base model Chevelle 300 Deluxe (as a 2-door coupe or a 2-door post sedan). The only SS option in '69 was the "Z25" SS-396 package. The '69 and up cars are harder to authenticate because the VIN can not be used to confirm if the car is an SS.
There were two colors that were exclusive to the '69 SS. "Monaco Orange" (code 72) and "Daytona Yellow" (code 76). If either of these paint codes appear on the cowl tag (and the cowl tag is genuine) then that would prove the car to be a genuine SS.
If someone had a nice '69 Malibu, and a rusted out '69 SS, it would be easy for them to simply move the SS equipment over to the Malibu. As long as they did not alter or move the VIN plates or cowl tags, this would be perfectly legal, and since the VIN tag doesn't tell you much, there would be almost no way for you to know.
From '69 on, single-piston disk brakes were STANDARD equipment with the SS package. These brakes are easier to find parts for than the earlier four-piston disk brakes.
Chevrolet literature indicates that the only way to get a 396 was with the SS package. However, there appears to be at least one late-production Chevelle that was built with a 396 and all the required SS equipment, but the "Z25" SS-396 option was not listed on the car's build sheet. It is believed that this car came from the factory with "SS" emblems, but that is not 100% certain.
Again in 1969, the only available SS engine was the 396 (in the same flavors as in 1968). In 1969, however, it was possible (if you knew who to talk to) to order something called a COPO 427 Chevelle. COPO stands for "Central Office Production Order". The COPO program allowed dealers to order equipment that was not usually available (such as special paint, special engines, etc.) Unlike the '68s, the '69 Chevelles had their 427 engines installed at the FACTORY, not the dealership. This makes the '69 427s more legitimate in the eyes of collectors today. You didn't necessarily have to go to Yenko or some other special dealer in '69 to get a 427 Chevelle. Your local dealer could usually get you one if you filled out the right paperwork. While the '69 COPO 427s had basically the same equipment as the SS-396s, they were not generally considered SSs because they did not have any external "SS" or "427" identification. They were the ultimate sleepers. Any genuine '69 COPO 427 Chevelle is quite valuable today. There are also unconfirmed reports of a '69 COPO 427 El Camino.
In addition, there was an "L89" aluminum head option available for the '69 375 HP 396. Few were ordered.
1969 SSs had "SS/396" emblems on the front, back, fenders, door panels, on the dash above the glove box, and on the standard SS steering wheel. The '69 SS also had the twin-bulge hood like the '68s, but the bolt holes where the hood hinges attached were slightly different. The '69 SS came with 14" SS wheels with "SS" center caps. The '69 SS stripe option consisted of a black, white, or red stripe which ran along the upper body sides. There are also reports of a few '69 SSs with dealer-painted hood stripes, similar to the stripes used on many '70-'72 SSs.
Another rare car, produced only in '69, was an SS Chevelle built on the 2-door post sedan, the "Chevelle 300". This was the only year that a 2-door post sedan SS was produced. Most of the '69 SSs, and all the '70-'72 SSs, were built upon the 2-door Malibu pillarless coupe.
Jon H said
Jul 15, 2010
Stan, is this car local?
SShink said
Jul 15, 2010
Jon H wrote:
Stan, is this car local?
Yes, Jon it is. See the attached pic.
Chris R said
Jul 15, 2010
Stan. There is no documentation that has been discovered to support this. But for a few years now. A few guys on Team Chevelle have been researching and investigating known, documented, original 69 cars that came out of the Kansas City Leeds plant and the Baltimore plant and have discovered that the majority of KC Leeds SS cars have an "L" on the cowl tag. Where as non SS cars from the Leeds plant do not seem to have this "L". The Baltimore cars seem to have a BL on the tag.
One guy in perticular that started doing this research a few years ago on the 69 cars, at least at the last time I checked, claimed he had documented many cars with known real buildsheets, regardless on if it was an SS and had yet to find a non SS car with the L or B L. I believe he found that almost all the true SS cars he had documented, every car with the L and B L on them turned out to be real SS cars. None of the Malibus he had good docs for had these.
With that said though, without any sort of real documentation which would have to come from GM themselves. There is no real concrete evidence to support that the L and B L actually have anything to do with the SS option. So it cant really be real evidence that the car with these digits on the cowl is a real SS.
But with the amount of coincidence support more cars that are genuine SS cars that have these digits, if I ran into an SS car that was built at one of these plants and it did not have the L or B L on it. I would be more apt to consider it a clone over a true SS.
bowtie said
Jul 15, 2010
When in doubt, try chevellestuff.com or you can always e-mail Chuck Hanson he's in our club directory. He's pretty darn knowledgeable too.
Derek69SS said
Jul 15, 2010
Chris R wrote:
Stan. There is no documentation that has been discovered to support this. But for a few years now. A few guys on Team Chevelle have been researching and investigating known, documented, original 69 cars that came out of the Kansas City Leeds plant and the Baltimore plant and have discovered that the majority of KC Leeds SS cars have an "L" on the cowl tag. Where as non SS cars from the Leeds plant do not seem to have this "L". The Baltimore cars seem to have a BL on the tag.
One guy in perticular that started doing this research a few years ago on the 69 cars, at least at the last time I checked, claimed he had documented many cars with known real buildsheets, regardless on if it was an SS and had yet to find a non SS car with the L or B L. I believe he found that almost all the true SS cars he had documented, every car with the L and B L on them turned out to be real SS cars. None of the Malibus he had good docs for had these.
With that said though, without any sort of real documentation which would have to come from GM themselves. There is no real concrete evidence to support that the L and B L actually have anything to do with the SS option. So it cant really be real evidence that the car with these digits on the cowl is a real SS.
But with the amount of coincidence support more cars that are genuine SS cars that have these digits, if I ran into an SS car that was built at one of these plants and it did not have the L or B L on it. I would be more apt to consider it a clone over a true SS.
That's very interesting... I've never heard that one, but my cars (both Kansas built) do support that theory. The SS car has an "L", and the Malibu does not.
Here's the tag from my SS car... the "L" is right below the 71 71 paint code (Lemans Blue)
jim larson said
Jul 19, 2010
Thought that wa a pretty good price @ the lakeville cruise Stan , if was an SS.
Jon H said
Jul 19, 2010
I thought you wanted a drop top?!?!
SShink said
Jul 20, 2010
Jon H wrote:
I thought you wanted a drop top?!?!
Jon, that was the original plan. I haven't been able to find a decent vert, so plan B was to find a 'better' condition Chevelle than I have now.
The '69 I posted a pic of had very nice new paint, but was set up for stop/go driving with 4.56 gears and I would need to invest another couple grand (min) to make it highway driveable along with some other missing parts it needed. Decided to pass on it.
Tim H said
Jul 20, 2010
Stan,
Are you wanting a 69?
True SS
Convert or are you open to a good car that meets some other criteria you have?
SShink said
Jul 20, 2010
Tim H wrote:
Stan,
Are you wanting a 69?
True SS
Convert or are you open to a good car that meets some other criteria you have?
Tim, sent you a PM.
Jon H said
Jul 21, 2010
Stan if you want to list your criteria ie: year, condition, color, motor, tranny, etc., and price range we can all be looking for you.
I'm looking at a '69 and I'm sure it's a clone, but would like to know what badges, gauges, suspension, etc. an SS usually has.
I know all the '70-72 differences, but not the '69's.
Thanks,
Stan
Derek is right, on a 69 it is tough to know if it is a real SS unless there is a build sheet with the car. Obviously verifying engine deck pad numbers to the VIN could say if it is somewhat real but even those can be restamped. Most everything can be swapped on to clone it without knowing.
The car I just swapped the engine on is just a malibu but the owner wants to clone it. Its a shame as it is a number matching small block 4 speed car.
Sounds like it's about as easy as cloning a '70-72.
1969
From 1969 on, the SS was no longer a separate model. Instead, it was now an "SS" option package added to a 300 Deluxe model, Malibu model, or El Camino Custom model. 1969 was the only model year that the SS package could be ordered on the base model Chevelle 300 Deluxe (as a 2-door coupe or a 2-door post sedan). The only SS option in '69 was the "Z25" SS-396 package. The '69 and up cars are harder to authenticate because the VIN can not be used to confirm if the car is an SS.
There were two colors that were exclusive to the '69 SS. "Monaco Orange" (code 72) and "Daytona Yellow" (code 76). If either of these paint codes appear on the cowl tag (and the cowl tag is genuine) then that would prove the car to be a genuine SS.
If someone had a nice '69 Malibu, and a rusted out '69 SS, it would be easy for them to simply move the SS equipment over to the Malibu. As long as they did not alter or move the VIN plates or cowl tags, this would be perfectly legal, and since the VIN tag doesn't tell you much, there would be almost no way for you to know.
From '69 on, single-piston disk brakes were STANDARD equipment with the SS package. These brakes are easier to find parts for than the earlier four-piston disk brakes.
Chevrolet literature indicates that the only way to get a 396 was with the SS package. However, there appears to be at least one late-production Chevelle that was built with a 396 and all the required SS equipment, but the "Z25" SS-396 option was not listed on the car's build sheet. It is believed that this car came from the factory with "SS" emblems, but that is not 100% certain.
Again in 1969, the only available SS engine was the 396 (in the same flavors as in 1968). In 1969, however, it was possible (if you knew who to talk to) to order something called a COPO 427 Chevelle. COPO stands for "Central Office Production Order". The COPO program allowed dealers to order equipment that was not usually available (such as special paint, special engines, etc.) Unlike the '68s, the '69 Chevelles had their 427 engines installed at the FACTORY, not the dealership. This makes the '69 427s more legitimate in the eyes of collectors today. You didn't necessarily have to go to Yenko or some other special dealer in '69 to get a 427 Chevelle. Your local dealer could usually get you one if you filled out the right paperwork. While the '69 COPO 427s had basically the same equipment as the SS-396s, they were not generally considered SSs because they did not have any external "SS" or "427" identification. They were the ultimate sleepers. Any genuine '69 COPO 427 Chevelle is quite valuable today. There are also unconfirmed reports of a '69 COPO 427 El Camino.
In addition, there was an "L89" aluminum head option available for the '69 375 HP 396. Few were ordered.
1969 SSs had "SS/396" emblems on the front, back, fenders, door panels, on the dash above the glove box, and on the standard SS steering wheel. The '69 SS also had the twin-bulge hood like the '68s, but the bolt holes where the hood hinges attached were slightly different. The '69 SS came with 14" SS wheels with "SS" center caps. The '69 SS stripe option consisted of a black, white, or red stripe which ran along the upper body sides. There are also reports of a few '69 SSs with dealer-painted hood stripes, similar to the stripes used on many '70-'72 SSs.
Another rare car, produced only in '69, was an SS Chevelle built on the 2-door post sedan, the "Chevelle 300". This was the only year that a 2-door post sedan SS was produced. Most of the '69 SSs, and all the '70-'72 SSs, were built upon the 2-door Malibu pillarless coupe.
Yes, Jon it is. See the attached pic.
One guy in perticular that started doing this research a few years ago on the 69 cars, at least at the last time I checked, claimed he had documented many cars with known real buildsheets, regardless on if it was an SS and had yet to find a non SS car with the L or B L. I believe he found that almost all the true SS cars he had documented, every car with the L and B L on them turned out to be real SS cars. None of the Malibus he had good docs for had these.
With that said though, without any sort of real documentation which would have to come from GM themselves. There is no real concrete evidence to support that the L and B L actually have anything to do with the SS option. So it cant really be real evidence that the car with these digits on the cowl is a real SS.
But with the amount of coincidence support more cars that are genuine SS cars that have these digits, if I ran into an SS car that was built at one of these plants and it did not have the L or B L on it. I would be more apt to consider it a clone over a true SS.
Here's the tag from my SS car... the "L" is right below the 71 71 paint code (Lemans Blue)
Jon, that was the original plan. I haven't been able to find a decent vert, so plan B was to find a 'better' condition Chevelle than I have now.
The '69 I posted a pic of had very nice new paint, but was set up for stop/go driving with 4.56 gears and I would need to invest another couple grand (min) to make it highway driveable along with some other missing parts it needed. Decided to pass on it.