Ok guys... We all know NCC is about Chevelle's (and their derivatives), but an appreciation of all hotrods is a common thread on our board and in our Club. I thought it best to start a new thread to document my roadster build.
One thing I've had to do is train myself not to call it a Cobra. That name is owned by Ford, it's not a 6 to 7 digit original, it is a replica - so it's a Mk4 Roadster.
The "rainy day" for all those pennies has come.
Last fall I requested an info packet, and bought the downloadable Assembly Manual. Many nights were spent hemming & hawing over what to do... FFR was running a sale on all the optional parts or accessories, but I just couldn't pull the trigger on it at that time. I was going to go with FFR's (Factory Five Racing) "Base Kit", and accumulate the next-needed-parts as the build progressed. Then I got an email from FFR that they're running another sale through February, a progressive discount to dollar amount spent on options/accessories. After crunching the numbers, factoring in freight/shipping - it was decided to bite-the-bullet and go with the "Complete Kit", and the options I wanted (which was just about every option/accessory offered). I can change my order up to 10 days before they load the kit on the truck.
To this, I've added: powder-coated chassis, full-length stainless headers, Coyote Engine install kit, power steering, IRS rear axle prep, chrome roll bar, Halibrand 17" wheels & Nitto tires, stainless side-pipes, wind wings, visors, heater/defroster, wipers, side louvers, EFI fuel system, FFR/replica "Smiths" gauges, and some other tidbits.
John D said
Feb 24, 2018
Deciding on the powertrain was really a no-brainer. My experiences with Blackie's (somewhat) modern EFI engine already locked that down. I'll be going with the Ford "Coyote" 5.0 modular V8, and a Tremec TKO-600 5spd OD gearbox. Another option for the kit is to use the '15 to '17 Mustang IRS rear-end, instead of a solid axle. Now where/how to get those pieces....
My original thought was to get a gently wrecked, or flood-damaged (Texas or Louisiana hurricane car) '15 to '17 Mustang GT as a donor. I'll get the Coyote, the TKO, and the IRS! I registered with a few online car auction sites and actually bid on several cars - with my highest bid hovering a bit below "crate package" prices. I quickly found out there is no such thing as a "gently wrecked" Mustang GT, and the flood-damage cars go for really big bucks. All the wrecks were NASTY front-end or side-impact cars with every airbag popped, and from the limited pictures available, the engine(s) were skewed in the bay. Then the "little voice" is telling me it's probably had the snot beat out of it, I've got to store the hulk while I'm trying to strip the bits I need off of it, then only after I torch/cut my way to the bits will I find out if something's cracked - and I still won't know the mechanical soundness of the bits until very deeply into the build of the Roadster when I can fire it up... Ditch the "Salvage Donor Car".
I'll be ordering a brand-new Coyote 5.0 and TKO from an outfit in Massachusetts. They offer a specific FFR package that has all of the parts needed to install the engine... down to their own oil pan to fit the Roadster (by Moroso) - it's balancer to tailcone seal, all electronics, wiring harness, everything. Best yet it's a new crate Ford Racing engine - zero miles, 24/24000 warranty - and it's priced lower than a salvage car, or the semi-complete packages offered by Ford, Summit, or Jegs.... but no IRS parts.
FFR offers an upgrade to the chassis to use the '15 to '17+ Mustang IRS setup. With the discounts available, and the improved ride/performance the "little voice" told me to do it.
Because I ditched the donor-car idea, and sourced the engine/transmission with new parts, where do you get the IRS parts? When ordering the IRS upgrade to the Roadster kit, FFR provides the upper & lower arms, the "toe-in" arms, half-shafts, and Koni coil-overs... no brakes, diff, or knuckles/hubs. FFR offers brand-new differential, knuckles, and hubs as a kit, and Mustang rear brakes (or Wilwood upgrade) is another kit ($$$$). These kits are a bit expensive.
Not being of the "Mustang/5.0" crowd, I didn't know it's common practice for the really serious power-seekers & gearheads to scrap the IRS, and install a solid axle. The entire rotor-to-rotor IRS assembly drops out of the Mustang with a 1/2-dozen bolts on its sub-frame assembly. An hour on Google & Ebay found a bunch of sources.
I got a complete 2016 IRS setup (1000 mile take-out), from an outfit near Dubuque IA. Midway Mustangs(What was annoying is the shipping was almost 50% of the price of the assembly... but it's nearly 500 lbs, and had to come by truck)
What was funny is unbeknownst to the warehouse staff at work, I'd talked to the SCS (Supply Chain Services) manager at work, and got permission to have this thing shipped to the shop. (I couldn't deal with a "delivery window", me not being home or taking time off, and/or Sheryl unloading a 1/4-ton pallet of car parts). It was there in 2 days.
I get a call Wednesday from one of the SCS people... "Hey John, there's this BIG pallet with a shrink-wrapped car axle on it at the warehouse for you... it is really a pain - when are you coming to get it?!"
I got down there after work with my pickup, called in a favor or two for muscle, and got it in the truck and back home... enter Mother Nature. The pallet & axle is too long & tall for the bed - I have to leave the tailgate down, and the tonneau cover off. Good 'ol Ma decides to dump 5 to 7 that night. My plan was to use the engine hoist to pick it out of the truck and wheel it into the 40 Watt - but the hoist is in the shed... behind the garage... with a full-season's of snow (plus an extra 6") in my way.
Cleaned the driveway, and carved a path to the shed with Mr. Toro - 7 trips later the hoist is assembled and the IRS is dangling. It's rolled in the shop and tucked behind Blackie for a future day.
Looking forward to seeing the progress. Always wanted to do something like that.
Lost in the 60s said
Feb 25, 2018
Enganeer wrote:
Looking forward to seeing the progress. Always wanted to do something like that.
You have a kit car now....5 minutes a day and you could drive the El Camino.
Speaking of El Camino, is the long range plan to sell Blackie when this is done, or a move to larger terra firma and facilities in the future too ?
SShink said
Feb 25, 2018
John this will be fun for you, and you deserve it. Glad to see you're playing with full size stuff where you're skills will be fully utilized instead of the plastic models (they're cool too, but don't make vroom vroom sounds). Let me know if you ever need a hand with it, even though knowing you it will be first rate.
One thing I'm curious about that I don't think you mentioned, is how do you register and title it? Is there such a thing as a 'kit car' title in MN?
John D said
Feb 25, 2018
FFR provides a "Certificate of Origin" - as they are the source/mfg of the main chassis or frame component. This is what's needed by MN for proof of the vehicle's (uh...) origin. I'll have to provide receipts/invoices for the other major components such as the engine, transmission, and possibly rear axle.
(In comparison to the "Rat Rod" guys, this should be a piece of cake!)
Jon H said
Feb 25, 2018
And to think you had little spare time before this....
It should be a fun build with new, clean and "correct" parts.
I would think few modifications would be required.
Less hair pulling and more fun!
John D said
Feb 25, 2018
Like I mentioned above, these cars originally were "sledgehammers". VERY raw, not house-trained, and only the minimum to make them street-legal.
FFR has it's own Build Forum (much like ours!), and the build-threads run the gamut between perfect replicas and highly modified or accessorized "Sport/Touring" setups.
The biggest common problem seems to be ventilation, and tight clearances in the "footboxes". Many of the guys have imagineered forced-air systems to get air into the footboxes, and reworked the tin in the footboxes to gain more room for size 13's. With the engine and headers/sidepipes just inches away from the cockpit, and only a sheet of .040 aluminum between you and them, it does get HOT. The common thing seems to be using a "Lizard Skin" product on the underside, and possibly a "DynaMat" type product on the inside.
Being an open roadster (the $4k soft-top isn't in the budget) I did order the heater/defroster kit. Knowing that Sheryl is "thermally challenged" this was a must for Spring and Fall cruise sessions!
We'll see!
BLyke said
Feb 26, 2018
Sounds like a great project, looking forward to seeing it get built.
John D said
Mar 3, 2018
Since it's a soaring 40 above zero today, I decided to start breaking down the IRS cradle/assembly I got for the roadster. Switched on the shop heat, backed out Sheryl's daily driver, and got started.
I've really got to get my head wrapped around working on new or nearly new parts... I was done in an hour. It's just foreign to me for bolts to work like bolts, nuts to just spin off, and things to just pop loose with gravity or a "love-tap".
Having worked on 50+ year old stuff the last 10 years, I'm used to starting with 3/8" drive, then 1/2", then the breaker bar, then a cheater on the bar, then the gas-axe! Not being bathed in penetrating oil and getting totally filthy is also a new experience!
Tools used: 1/2" drive - Breaker Bar, Impact Wrench, Ratchet, 1-1/4", 13/16", 18mm, 15mm sockets 3/8" drive - Ratchet, 6" extension, 10mm socket 1/4" drive - Ratchet, 3" extension, 8mm socket 18mm & 15mm Combination wrenches Dead-Blow hammer (just to pop rotors off hubs) "Persuader" (wedged between lug studs to loosen axle nut, and pop axles out of diff)
Now you can see why I travel hundreds of miles for cars with far less rust than anything local. Even a 50 yr old car from down south still comes apart with hand wrenches...
Dave Seitz said
Mar 7, 2018
John that should be a great car when done. That Coyote engine winds up to 7grand easy.
With new suspension and drivetrain handle better then the originals that's for sure.
John D said
Apr 12, 2018
Well, just sent another big chunk-o-money to Massachusetts.
Talked to Dan out there (their build video guy), and confirmed a change-order. I'm opting for the blank dash instead of the pre-punched. The pre-punched uses the "street car" layout, and I'm going to do a variation of the S/C layout.
The street layout put the speedo on the right, tach on the left.
The S/C layout puts the Oil Pressure, Water Temp, and Tach up in your line-of-site, and the speedo over where you don't really care
Everything's on track for a 5/19 completion of kit date - and they'll call me a few days prior to confirm and arrange shipping. About 7 - 10 days after that it'll be early Christmas!
Agree, the SC layout is not effective for watching the speedo, and are you still getting that goofy, backwards speedometer or going with something completely different ?
John D said
Apr 12, 2018
Yup, the speedo will be a repro of the original "Smiths" reverse rotation unit... backwards - but it's also totally electronic. It has a GPS receiver! NO mechanical/electrical connection to the driveline.
(It has a constant-hot power connection and "boots" up about 20 seconds after ignition on - has mileage, trip meter, 1/4-mile ET, and top speed data logging).
Lost in the 60s said
Apr 12, 2018
The Auto Meter speedo I put in my '38 is GPS also with the trip meter, but I don't think it has top speed or 1/4 mile ET. I don't have mine wired direct, to prevent the power draw when the car doesn't get driven for a weeks at a time. It does boot up quick, once the car is started, but locating a sat is dependent on a clear view to the sky...nothing inside a building or under dense trees.
John D said
Apr 22, 2018
Spent the better part of Saturday and a few hours this morning building a dolly for the Roadster chassis.
Since this thing will take the better part of a year to assemble, I need something I can roll the chassis around on, and tuck it out of the way when not working on it.
Another requirement was to get the thing up to a comfortable working height where I'm not stooping over, or can roll under it easily. Also to be able to work SAFELY, without worrying about it falling off jack-stands or something.
The main chassis tubes will sit in the round "saddles", and the ratchet straps will snug the assembly down tight. The rear casters are fixed, the fronts are swivels. I added some lift-jack/locks to the front as well - stomp these down and the frame/dolly isn't moving anywhere.
Cool dolly, but you may want to consider having all 4 casters swivel to move it laterally and not have to wiggle it around...
SShink said
Apr 23, 2018
Dashboard will be proud of you using some wood on your project.
Chris S said
Apr 23, 2018
Great idea to put it on a stand John, it should make the build much more enjoyable.
John D said
Apr 23, 2018
Dashboard will be proud of you using some wood on your project.
Trust me, I was thinking about steel & welding, but then what to do with it afterward? Now I can knock it down and throw it in the firepit.
My neighbor Cassie lent me her super-zoomie compound miter saw. Made short work of the angles and 4x4's!
dashboard said
Apr 24, 2018
Pretty handy woodsmithing JD.
Before there was a wheel man had a club made out of wood, he used it for protection, hunting and keeping woman out of his workshop. Years later the woman burned the club.
John D said
Apr 28, 2018
Been putzing in the shop the last few days, cleaning up the IRS diff and the brake calipers & brackets for paint.
Been trying to figure out a way to positively/definitely plug the axle shaft holes in the diff so I can bead blast it. (Don't need SAND in the diff housing, or OIL in the cabinet!).
I mic'd the sealing surface of the axles and they are 46mm. That converts to about 1-13/16". As it turns out a PVC 1-1/4 to 1" pipe reducer is about 1-7/8" OD, and has enough "meat"/wall thickness to be turned down. So I chucked them up in the mini-lathe and took a few passes of material off to about 46.2mm. Some 400g to polish it down to 46.1mm, break the edge and I've got plugs!
(It took 2 more adapters each to really plug the "assembly", but it was down, dirty, and cheap... and adhered to the K.I.S.S. principle)
A session in the blast cabinet, and a few coats of rattle-can satin clear and the diff is ready!
My kit is "on the rack" waiting for Stewart Transport to pick it up. I asked my Sales Rep to take a few photo's of the car on the racking "waiting for it's new home" - should make a neat photo for the build's photo-journal.
I also confirmed with Stewart that everything is "in order", and delivery is as scheduled. I should be seeing "Blackie's" stable-mate in the days after Memorial Day.
Sent another "big-chunk-o-benjamins" this afternoon to Mike Forte's Parts Connection. He seems to be the preferred supplier for the Coyote & Tremec powertrain packages for the FFR roadsters. The following will be showing up soon: M-6007-M50 M-6007-M50A 2016 COYOTE 1 COY 5.0 ENGINE COVER 1 COYOTE COYOTE ALT KIT 1 COY ELEC ENGINE CONTROL & HARNESS 1 COY OIL OIL FILTER NIPPLE 1 COY OIL WIX SHORT OIL FILTER 1 RAM COY RAM 11" X 26 CLUTCH 1 COY MINI STARTER / NO CHARGE 1 FORK COY CLUTCH FORK 1 T/O B T/O BEARING FORD USA 1 CLUTCH CLUTCH BOLT & DOWEL KIT 1 COY BELLHOUSING, BLOCKPLATE & BOLT 1 TCET4617 TCET 4617 FORD .82 TKO-600 RR 1 TAIL BOSS MACHINE TAIL HOUSING BOSS N/C 1 SPEEDO SPEEDO PLUG NO/CHARGE 1 REV LITE TKO REV LITE SWITCH & CONNECTOR 1 MOR COY MOROSO OIL PAN & P/U 1 MOR COY MOROSO SENSOR PLUG 1 EXT HYD EXT HYD SLAVE KIT MK IV COY/TKO 1 FUEL PUMP IN-TANK PUMP 190 & HANGER 1 COY REG & FILTER,REG & LINE KIT W/ENDS INSTALLED 1 COY AIR K&N FILTER AIR INLET KIT 1 COY BELL BELL INSPECTION PLATE 1 COY TANK COOLANT FILL TANK & CAP 1 LIFTGATE LIFTGATE DELIVERY N/C
This project is starting to get VERY real!
Lost in the 60s said
May 21, 2018
Will the delivery method have means to unload, or will you need muscle power ?
John D said
May 21, 2018
The kit delivery exact date is unknown... the driver will contact me when "he's a day out". The powertrain delivery is totally hit-or-miss. The engine comes direct from Ford, the other stuff from MA... hence lift-gate for both items - they can back up to the garage and drop it.
The kit delivery (Stewart Transport) is FFR's preferred method. They've got trailers rigged up specially for these kits, can lower the chassis/body right onto my dolly, and will help schlepping the chassis/body & boxes up the driveway. I've also made a new "car-guy" buddy on the FFR forum (lives in Richfield) who's also building a roadster. He's volunteered to help and photograph if it doesn't conflict with his schedule.
Once I know the exact "window" of delivery time for the kit I'll post it here. I'll probably have a "sudden illness/food poisoning" that day (work has been warned). If anyone's available you are more than welcome to come by! I'd appreciate the help, and would love to share the start of a 40-y.o. goal!
John D said
May 25, 2018
Got an update from the shipping company... they're having labor problems - a driver quit on them and they're kinda stuck. It doesn't look like they'll be able to load my kit (and others) until after the holiday, so mid next week is probably out. I hope their driver will deliver on Sat or Sun, as I'm on a plane to Tennessee Monday morning - back Weds afternoon.
Lost in the 60s said
May 25, 2018
Dang truck drivers...just can't depend on them anymore.
Leaving Monday kinda cuts into your 3 day weekend...
John D said
May 25, 2018
I didn't clarify... I'm flying out a week from Monday (not Memorial Day.)
Things may take an interesting twist. There's another guy in Stillwater that ordered a '35 Hotrod Pickup. He's in the same boat er, uh, truck... and he also has had his shipment bumped, and is also traveling on that Monday!
So there's TWO kits coming this way, two owners a little peeved, and tight delivery windows.
I'll be back in town Weds (6/6) afternoon, and have offered to accept delivery of his kit - if he isn't in town that week. At least his kit will be across town, not the country!
Lost in the 60s said
May 25, 2018
Maybe I should see if they want to fly me out to drive the truck back here...still have a valid class A...
I could possibly help the other guy and have his stuff closer to home too. Maybe load the body/chassis on the rollback.
John D said
May 26, 2018
Here's the plan as of yesterday afternoon.
Due to both of us not being available for the delivery time window, both of our kits are being bumped to the next truck - delivery week of the 11th. Stewart Transport is playing serious "catch-up", and they won't push or delay their driver(s).
That wasn't good enough for Jeff ('35 truck kit).
He's renting a trailer, and driving to MA (0:dark-thirty departure on Sunday) with his dad and picking it up at the factory. The irony is he'll be loading his kit on Tuesday while the "original" truck is there loading as well!
I asked him if he did the math on rental, fuel, and lodging and he said he didn't care. "I'd rather spend the money on me and my dad than the trucking company now!"
(A bonus is he'll get a tour of the factory)
I'll just have to wait another week. The math and the risk of damage doesn't justify the trip IMO. I'll assume liability when it's off the crane and on my dolly at the end of my driveway.
John D said
May 29, 2018
Shot off a call to my "engine guy" this afternoon when I got home from "up Nort".
My very heavy box/pallet with a brand-spankin'-new Ford Coyote 5.0 - direct from the factory - is in Eagan. The Tremec and other toys will be arriving from MA. shortly afterward.
John D said
May 31, 2018
There's a Coyote in my garage! Very well packaged/crated by Ford. I was able to reuse the lower "saddles" and set it on a furniture dolly for ease of movement.
This thing is BIG - it's all cylinder head! It's all bagged up and rolled in the corner... now just to have a car to bolt it into!
Kinda fun getting piles of packages, as long as you don't think about the financial damage it took to get them there. I got a "few" things here and more on the way for the '62 Impala.
Any word on a ship date yet ?
John D said
Jun 7, 2018
The transport company got back to me today - I'm on the truck for delivery Father's Day week... finally!
(Because of the shipping delays/labor/whatever... rumor has it that Factory Five has had to halt completion production. They've got nowhere left to store/stack kits until delivery catches up!)
Lost in the 60s said
Jun 7, 2018
John D wrote:
The transport company got back to me today - I'm on the truck for delivery Father's Day week... finally!
(Because of the shipping delays/labor/whatever... rumor has it that Factory Five has had to halt completion production. They've got nowhere left to store/stack kits until delivery catches up!)
Wow, I would think FF would be finding other sources to get the kits/parts out of their way. AND I'd be cranking on someone about a healthy discount on the shipping charges, since you have all the other parts for the build stacked all over in your way and you have leave 1 vehicle outside...
John D said
Jun 7, 2018
The other guy "Jeff" who went and got his kit related that FF is a bit bent out of shape with Stewart... but they've kinda put their eggs in one basket. Stewart owns the "special" trailers rigged up with the gantry cranes and racking for FF kits.
If FF owned the trailers, they'd just contract another hauler with the stipulation that the driver must help with the unload process, and be damn good as they'll be delivering into residential areas.
We'll see about a discount, but I won't hold my breath. I'll probably have better luck getting some "swag" from FF for my patience.
John D said
Jun 9, 2018
Busy day today!
With the rain, Sheryl's plans to powerwash the house, clean windows & screens got nix'd... (aw shucks) so I got a few things done out in the shop.
Since I don't have a chassis yet, why not work on some of the sub-assemblies and get things ready? The engine/trans package I got from Forte's Performance has been fabulous. So far everything fits perfectly, all hardware/fasteners included, and their hydraulic slave cylinder is really cool - but it has a minor flaw in the mounting to the clutch fork (more later).
1st order of business was mounting the tin "cover plate" to the block. By far the easiest job of the day. Amounted to removing the flywheel, slipping it on, and rebolting the flywheel. While I was there I broke out the dial indicator and measured the flywheel runout. Ford did good - only +.001
A simple job of bolting up the friction disc and pressure plate with the supplied alignment dowel. (Nice touch Ram Clutches!)
This is a great little setup! They supply a Wilwood master cylinder kit (with both a direct-mount, and remote-mount reservoir), braided stainless line with ends installed, a custom machined billet mounting bracket for the slave cylinder, a machined "clevis" adapter for the clutch fork, and a cool little slave cylinder with a Heim joint and actuator rod. Everything is really top-notch - except the attachment of the clevis to the fork.
The clevis is machined to fit inside the recess of the fork, and utilize the pass-through hole for the Mustang clutch cable as a mounting point. This works, but IMO they could supply a bushing like the one I made for a better install.
The hole in the fork is punched, and not-quite-round. I mic'd it and came up with an average. Off to the Sherline mini-lathe... chucked up a piece of brass rod and put on the Machinist Hat. After turning it to size, drilling it to 1/4", and parting it off, voila!... a reducing bushing that fit in the hole (with a few love-taps) and corrected the slop.
Since the bellhousing is really for a cable-clutch car, it comes with a neat little stamped tin cover "hat" for the clutch-fork opening. A few minor mods and I was able to use it with the hydraulic setup.
The slave cylinder bracket blocks access to the fastening screws. For (future) clutch adjustment I'll have to remove the cover, so... I snipped the mounting holes into slots, then punched a 1-1/8" hole in the end cap of the cover - then made the hole into a "U" to go over the actuator rod/bellows.
A couple of 1" 10-24 machine screws got the heads cut off, and now serve as studs in the bellhousing. I can now get at the hold-down nuts with a wrench to remove the cover.
Last step was actually bolting up the transmission. This thing's a beast!
I picked up a few long bolts the same thread as the bellhousing, and cut off the heads to make alignment dowels/rods. A few passes in the end with the hacksaw and I've got screwdriver slots to remove them.
I purposely only did 3, leaving the last open for a bolt. After getting things all jigged up and started, I wanted a way to "hold onto" the progress I'd made using the bolt. After several choice cuss-words and a lot of fiddly/wiggling/jerking there was a satisfying THUNK - and the gearbox was mated up.
The actuator rod access cover was removed, and I started fitting the actuator rod itself. It's a universal-fit part, and requires trimming to length. I needed to shorten it by about an inch. I then set the freeplay of the throw-out bearing, locked it down, installed the cover and done.
After powerwashing the house, I got back into the garage.
Don't want to bore you with more pics, but I swapped the stock Mustang oil pan with the "built to spec" Moroso pan for the FFR Roadsters. Pretty simple stuff, gotta love the new/modern gaskets. (And yes, I did the trick with the baggie on the pickup, and play-doh in the sump to check clearance... it's 3/8".)
Ok guys... We all know NCC is about Chevelle's (and their derivatives), but an appreciation of all hotrods is a common thread on our board and in our Club. I thought it best to start a new thread to document my roadster build.
One thing I've had to do is train myself not to call it a Cobra. That name is owned by Ford, it's not a 6 to 7 digit original, it is a replica - so it's a Mk4 Roadster.
The "rainy day" for all those pennies has come.
Last fall I requested an info packet, and bought the downloadable Assembly Manual. Many nights were spent hemming & hawing over what to do... FFR was running a sale on all the optional parts or accessories, but I just couldn't pull the trigger on it at that time. I was going to go with FFR's (Factory Five Racing) "Base Kit", and accumulate the next-needed-parts as the build progressed. Then I got an email from FFR that they're running another sale through February, a progressive discount to dollar amount spent on options/accessories. After crunching the numbers, factoring in freight/shipping - it was decided to bite-the-bullet and go with the "Complete Kit", and the options I wanted (which was just about every option/accessory offered). I can change my order up to 10 days before they load the kit on the truck.
Roadster Complete Kit
To this, I've added: powder-coated chassis, full-length stainless headers, Coyote Engine install kit, power steering, IRS rear axle prep, chrome roll bar, Halibrand 17" wheels & Nitto tires, stainless side-pipes, wind wings, visors, heater/defroster, wipers, side louvers, EFI fuel system, FFR/replica "Smiths" gauges, and some other tidbits.
Deciding on the powertrain was really a no-brainer. My experiences with Blackie's (somewhat) modern EFI engine already locked that down. I'll be going with the Ford "Coyote" 5.0 modular V8, and a Tremec TKO-600 5spd OD gearbox. Another option for the kit is to use the '15 to '17 Mustang IRS rear-end, instead of a solid axle. Now where/how to get those pieces....
My original thought was to get a gently wrecked, or flood-damaged (Texas or Louisiana hurricane car) '15 to '17 Mustang GT as a donor. I'll get the Coyote, the TKO, and the IRS! I registered with a few online car auction sites and actually bid on several cars - with my highest bid hovering a bit below "crate package" prices. I quickly found out there is no such thing as a "gently wrecked" Mustang GT, and the flood-damage cars go for really big bucks. All the wrecks were NASTY front-end or side-impact cars with every airbag popped, and from the limited pictures available, the engine(s) were skewed in the bay. Then the "little voice" is telling me it's probably had the snot beat out of it, I've got to store the hulk while I'm trying to strip the bits I need off of it, then only after I torch/cut my way to the bits will I find out if something's cracked - and I still won't know the mechanical soundness of the bits until very deeply into the build of the Roadster when I can fire it up... Ditch the "Salvage Donor Car".
I'll be ordering a brand-new Coyote 5.0 and TKO from an outfit in Massachusetts. They offer a specific FFR package that has all of the parts needed to install the engine... down to their own oil pan to fit the Roadster (by Moroso) - it's balancer to tailcone seal, all electronics, wiring harness, everything. Best yet it's a new crate Ford Racing engine - zero miles, 24/24000 warranty - and it's priced lower than a salvage car, or the semi-complete packages offered by Ford, Summit, or Jegs.... but no IRS parts.
Engine
Electronics
Transmission
FFR offers an upgrade to the chassis to use the '15 to '17+ Mustang IRS setup. With the discounts available, and the improved ride/performance the "little voice" told me to do it.
Because I ditched the donor-car idea, and sourced the engine/transmission with new parts, where do you get the IRS parts? When ordering the IRS upgrade to the Roadster kit, FFR provides the upper & lower arms, the "toe-in" arms, half-shafts, and Koni coil-overs... no brakes, diff, or knuckles/hubs. FFR offers brand-new differential, knuckles, and hubs as a kit, and Mustang rear brakes (or Wilwood upgrade) is another kit ($$$$). These kits are a bit expensive.
Not being of the "Mustang/5.0" crowd, I didn't know it's common practice for the really serious power-seekers & gearheads to scrap the IRS, and install a solid axle. The entire rotor-to-rotor IRS assembly drops out of the Mustang with a 1/2-dozen bolts on its sub-frame assembly. An hour on Google & Ebay found a bunch of sources.
I got a complete 2016 IRS setup (1000 mile take-out), from an outfit near Dubuque IA. Midway Mustangs (What was annoying is the shipping was almost 50% of the price of the assembly... but it's nearly 500 lbs, and had to come by truck)
What was funny is unbeknownst to the warehouse staff at work, I'd talked to the SCS (Supply Chain Services) manager at work, and got permission to have this thing shipped to the shop. (I couldn't deal with a "delivery window", me not being home or taking time off, and/or Sheryl unloading a 1/4-ton pallet of car parts). It was there in 2 days.
I get a call Wednesday from one of the SCS people... "Hey John, there's this BIG pallet with a shrink-wrapped car axle on it at the warehouse for you... it is really a pain - when are you coming to get it?!"
I got down there after work with my pickup, called in a favor or two for muscle, and got it in the truck and back home... enter Mother Nature. The pallet & axle is too long & tall for the bed - I have to leave the tailgate down, and the tonneau cover off. Good 'ol Ma decides to dump 5 to 7 that night. My plan was to use the engine hoist to pick it out of the truck and wheel it into the 40 Watt - but the hoist is in the shed... behind the garage... with a full-season's of snow (plus an extra 6") in my way.
Cleaned the driveway, and carved a path to the shed with Mr. Toro - 7 trips later the hoist is assembled and the IRS is dangling. It's rolled in the shop and tucked behind Blackie for a future day.
You have a kit car now....5 minutes a day and you could drive the El Camino.
Speaking of El Camino, is the long range plan to sell Blackie when this is done, or a move to larger terra firma and facilities in the future too ?
John this will be fun for you, and you deserve it. Glad to see you're playing with full size stuff where you're skills will be fully utilized instead of the plastic models (they're cool too, but don't make vroom vroom sounds).
Let me know if you ever need a hand with it, even though knowing you it will be first rate.
One thing I'm curious about that I don't think you mentioned, is how do you register and title it? Is there such a thing as a 'kit car' title in MN?
FFR provides a "Certificate of Origin" - as they are the source/mfg of the main chassis or frame component. This is what's needed by MN for proof of the vehicle's (uh...) origin. I'll have to provide receipts/invoices for the other major components such as the engine, transmission, and possibly rear axle.
Here's a link to the official forms
(In comparison to the "Rat Rod" guys, this should be a piece of cake!)
It should be a fun build with new, clean and "correct" parts.
I would think few modifications would be required.
Less hair pulling and more fun!
FFR has it's own Build Forum (much like ours!), and the build-threads run the gamut between perfect replicas and highly modified or accessorized "Sport/Touring" setups.
The biggest common problem seems to be ventilation, and tight clearances in the "footboxes". Many of the guys have imagineered forced-air systems to get air into the footboxes, and reworked the tin in the footboxes to gain more room for size 13's. With the engine and headers/sidepipes just inches away from the cockpit, and only a sheet of .040 aluminum between you and them, it does get HOT. The common thing seems to be using a "Lizard Skin" product on the underside, and possibly a "DynaMat" type product on the inside.
Being an open roadster (the $4k soft-top isn't in the budget) I did order the heater/defroster kit. Knowing that Sheryl is "thermally challenged" this was a must for Spring and Fall cruise sessions!
We'll see!
Since it's a soaring 40 above zero today, I decided to start breaking down the IRS cradle/assembly I got for the roadster. Switched on the shop heat, backed out Sheryl's daily driver, and got started.
I've really got to get my head wrapped around working on new or nearly new parts... I was done in an hour. It's just foreign to me for bolts to work like bolts, nuts to just spin off, and things to just pop loose with gravity or a "love-tap".
Having worked on 50+ year old stuff the last 10 years, I'm used to starting with 3/8" drive, then 1/2", then the breaker bar, then a cheater on the bar, then the gas-axe! Not being bathed in penetrating oil and getting totally filthy is also a new experience!
Tools used:
1/2" drive - Breaker Bar, Impact Wrench, Ratchet, 1-1/4", 13/16", 18mm, 15mm sockets
3/8" drive - Ratchet, 6" extension, 10mm socket
1/4" drive - Ratchet, 3" extension, 8mm socket
18mm & 15mm Combination wrenches
Dead-Blow hammer (just to pop rotors off hubs)
"Persuader" (wedged between lug studs to loosen axle nut, and pop axles out of diff)
Now to try and get rid of/sell the leftovers...
There is definitely less frustration/mess working on newer cars/parts that come apart nicely.
Which parts will be re-used?
These are what's re-used.
The kit provides all the arms, coil-overs, and new half-shafts.
Link to FFR's IRS option page
Now you can see why I travel hundreds of miles for cars with far less rust than anything local. Even a 50 yr old car from down south still comes apart with hand wrenches...
With new suspension and drivetrain handle better then the originals that's for sure.
Well, just sent another big chunk-o-money to Massachusetts.
Talked to Dan out there (their build video guy), and confirmed a change-order. I'm opting for the blank dash instead of the pre-punched. The pre-punched uses the "street car" layout, and I'm going to do a variation of the S/C layout.
The street layout put the speedo on the right, tach on the left.
The S/C layout puts the Oil Pressure, Water Temp, and Tach up in your line-of-site, and the speedo over where you don't really care
Everything's on track for a 5/19 completion of kit date - and they'll call me a few days prior to confirm and arrange shipping. About 7 - 10 days after that it'll be early Christmas!
(It has a constant-hot power connection and "boots" up about 20 seconds after ignition on - has mileage, trip meter, 1/4-mile ET, and top speed data logging).
Spent the better part of Saturday and a few hours this morning building a dolly for the Roadster chassis.
Since this thing will take the better part of a year to assemble, I need something I can roll the chassis around on, and tuck it out of the way when not working on it.
Another requirement was to get the thing up to a comfortable working height where I'm not stooping over, or can roll under it easily. Also to be able to work SAFELY, without worrying about it falling off jack-stands or something.
The main chassis tubes will sit in the round "saddles", and the ratchet straps will snug the assembly down tight. The rear casters are fixed, the fronts are swivels. I added some lift-jack/locks to the front as well - stomp these down and the frame/dolly isn't moving anywhere.
Cool dolly, but you may want to consider having all 4 casters swivel to move it laterally and not have to wiggle it around...
Dashboard will be proud of you using some wood on your project.
Great idea to put it on a stand John, it should make the build much more enjoyable.
Trust me, I was thinking about steel & welding, but then what to do with it afterward? Now I can knock it down and throw it in the firepit.
My neighbor Cassie lent me her super-zoomie compound miter saw. Made short work of the angles and 4x4's!
Before there was a wheel man had a club made out of wood, he used it for protection, hunting and keeping woman out of his workshop. Years later the woman burned the club.
Been putzing in the shop the last few days, cleaning up the IRS diff and the brake calipers & brackets for paint.
Been trying to figure out a way to positively/definitely plug the axle shaft holes in the diff so I can bead blast it. (Don't need SAND in the diff housing, or OIL in the cabinet!).
I mic'd the sealing surface of the axles and they are 46mm. That converts to about 1-13/16". As it turns out a PVC 1-1/4 to 1" pipe reducer is about 1-7/8" OD, and has enough "meat"/wall thickness to be turned down. So I chucked them up in the mini-lathe and took a few passes of material off to about 46.2mm. Some 400g to polish it down to 46.1mm, break the edge and I've got plugs!
(It took 2 more adapters each to really plug the "assembly", but it was down, dirty, and cheap... and adhered to the K.I.S.S. principle)
A session in the blast cabinet, and a few coats of rattle-can satin clear and the diff is ready!
Update 5/21:
My kit is "on the rack" waiting for Stewart Transport to pick it up. I asked my Sales Rep to take a few photo's of the car on the racking "waiting for it's new home" - should make a neat photo for the build's photo-journal.
I also confirmed with Stewart that everything is "in order", and delivery is as scheduled. I should be seeing "Blackie's" stable-mate in the days after Memorial Day.
Sent another "big-chunk-o-benjamins" this afternoon to Mike Forte's Parts Connection. He seems to be the preferred supplier for the Coyote & Tremec powertrain packages for the FFR roadsters.
The following will be showing up soon:
M-6007-M50 M-6007-M50A 2016 COYOTE
1 COY 5.0 ENGINE COVER
1 COYOTE COYOTE ALT KIT
1 COY ELEC ENGINE CONTROL & HARNESS
1 COY OIL OIL FILTER NIPPLE
1 COY OIL WIX SHORT OIL FILTER
1 RAM COY RAM 11" X 26 CLUTCH
1 COY MINI STARTER / NO CHARGE
1 FORK COY CLUTCH FORK
1 T/O B T/O BEARING FORD USA
1 CLUTCH CLUTCH BOLT & DOWEL KIT
1 COY BELLHOUSING, BLOCKPLATE & BOLT
1 TCET4617 TCET 4617 FORD .82 TKO-600 RR
1 TAIL BOSS MACHINE TAIL HOUSING BOSS N/C
1 SPEEDO SPEEDO PLUG NO/CHARGE
1 REV LITE TKO REV LITE SWITCH & CONNECTOR
1 MOR COY MOROSO OIL PAN & P/U
1 MOR COY MOROSO SENSOR PLUG
1 EXT HYD EXT HYD SLAVE KIT MK IV COY/TKO
1 FUEL PUMP IN-TANK PUMP 190 & HANGER
1 COY REG & FILTER,REG & LINE KIT W/ENDS INSTALLED
1 COY AIR K&N FILTER AIR INLET KIT
1 COY BELL BELL INSPECTION PLATE
1 COY TANK COOLANT FILL TANK & CAP
1 LIFTGATE LIFTGATE DELIVERY N/C
This project is starting to get VERY real!
The kit delivery exact date is unknown... the driver will contact me when "he's a day out".
that day (work has been warned). If anyone's available you are more than welcome to come by! I'd appreciate the help, and would love to share the start of a 40-y.o. goal!
The powertrain delivery is totally hit-or-miss. The engine comes direct from Ford, the other stuff from MA... hence lift-gate for both items - they can back up to the garage and drop it.
The kit delivery (Stewart Transport) is FFR's preferred method. They've got trailers rigged up specially for these kits, can lower the chassis/body right onto my dolly, and will help schlepping the chassis/body & boxes up the driveway. I've also made a new "car-guy" buddy on the FFR forum (lives in Richfield) who's also building a roadster. He's volunteered to help and photograph if it doesn't conflict with his schedule.
Once I know the exact "window" of delivery time for the kit I'll post it here. I'll probably have a "sudden illness/food poisoning"
Dang truck drivers...just can't depend on them anymore.
Leaving Monday kinda cuts into your 3 day weekend...
Things may take an interesting twist. There's another guy in Stillwater that ordered a '35 Hotrod Pickup. He's in the same boat er, uh, truck... and he also has had his shipment bumped, and is also traveling on that Monday!
So there's TWO kits coming this way, two owners a little peeved, and tight delivery windows.
I'll be back in town Weds (6/6) afternoon, and have offered to accept delivery of his kit - if he isn't in town that week. At least his kit will be across town, not the country!
I could possibly help the other guy and have his stuff closer to home too. Maybe load the body/chassis on the rollback.
Due to both of us not being available for the delivery time window, both of our kits are being bumped to the next truck - delivery week of the 11th. Stewart Transport is playing serious "catch-up", and they won't push or delay their driver(s).
That wasn't good enough for Jeff ('35 truck kit).
He's renting a trailer, and driving to MA (0:dark-thirty departure on Sunday) with his dad and picking it up at the factory. The irony is he'll be loading his kit on Tuesday while the "original" truck is there loading as well!
I asked him if he did the math on rental, fuel, and lodging and he said he didn't care. "I'd rather spend the money on me and my dad than the trucking company now!"
(A bonus is he'll get a tour of the factory)
I'll just have to wait another week. The math and the risk of damage doesn't justify the trip IMO. I'll assume liability when it's off the crane and on my dolly at the end of my driveway.
My very heavy box/pallet with a brand-spankin'-new Ford Coyote 5.0 - direct from the factory - is in Eagan. The Tremec and other toys will be arriving from MA. shortly afterward.
There's a Coyote in my garage!
Very well packaged/crated by Ford. I was able to reuse the lower "saddles" and set it on a furniture dolly for ease of movement.
This thing is BIG - it's all cylinder head! It's all bagged up and rolled in the corner... now just to have a car to bolt it into!
If Mopar hadn't already claimed the name, that's what I would call a 'wedge' motor!
A wedge FIT into the engine bay! It fits, but it's very tight - not a lot of wiggle-room.
Don't apologize for the type of content, OR, for the purist:
How much trouble would it be to have two project sections, one for Chevelle specific, one for all the other fun stuff?
Example Models, Trains, other brands, Hybrids, Home and garage etc.
Just sayin.
Karl
Christmas in June...
Got the last of my goodies from Forte's Performance today:
Transmission/Bellhousing/Clutch
Hyd. Clutch master/slave setup
Cold air intake
Moroso pan & pickup
Lots of other tidbids for a Coyote install into a MkIV FFR
Any word on a ship date yet ?
(Because of the shipping delays/labor/whatever... rumor has it that Factory Five has had to halt completion production. They've got nowhere left to store/stack kits until delivery catches up!)
Wow, I would think FF would be finding other sources to get the kits/parts out of their way. AND I'd be cranking on someone about a healthy discount on the shipping charges, since you have all the other parts for the build stacked all over in your way and you have leave 1 vehicle outside...
If FF owned the trailers, they'd just contract another hauler with the stipulation that the driver must help with the unload process, and be damn good as they'll be delivering into residential areas.
We'll see about a discount, but I won't hold my breath. I'll probably have better luck getting some "swag" from FF for my patience.
Busy day today!
With the rain, Sheryl's plans to powerwash the house, clean windows & screens got nix'd... (aw shucks) so I got a few things done out in the shop.
Since I don't have a chassis yet, why not work on some of the sub-assemblies and get things ready? The engine/trans package I got from Forte's Performance has been fabulous. So far everything fits perfectly, all hardware/fasteners included, and their hydraulic slave cylinder is really cool - but it has a minor flaw in the mounting to the clutch fork (more later).
1st order of business was mounting the tin "cover plate" to the block. By far the easiest job of the day. Amounted to removing the flywheel, slipping it on, and rebolting the flywheel. While I was there I broke out the dial indicator and measured the flywheel runout. Ford did good - only +.001
A simple job of bolting up the friction disc and pressure plate with the supplied alignment dowel. (Nice touch Ram Clutches!)
Forte Performance hydraulic clutch setup...
This is a great little setup! They supply a Wilwood master cylinder kit (with both a direct-mount, and remote-mount reservoir), braided stainless line with ends installed, a custom machined billet mounting bracket for the slave cylinder, a machined "clevis" adapter for the clutch fork, and a cool little slave cylinder with a Heim joint and actuator rod. Everything is really top-notch - except the attachment of the clevis to the fork.
The clevis is machined to fit inside the recess of the fork, and utilize the pass-through hole for the Mustang clutch cable as a mounting point. This works, but IMO they could supply a bushing like the one I made for a better install.
The hole in the fork is punched, and not-quite-round. I mic'd it and came up with an average. Off to the Sherline mini-lathe... chucked up a piece of brass rod and put on the Machinist Hat. After turning it to size, drilling it to 1/4", and parting it off, voila!... a reducing bushing that fit in the hole (with a few love-taps) and corrected the slop.
Since the bellhousing is really for a cable-clutch car, it comes with a neat little stamped tin cover "hat" for the clutch-fork opening. A few minor mods and I was able to use it with the hydraulic setup.
The slave cylinder bracket blocks access to the fastening screws. For (future) clutch adjustment I'll have to remove the cover, so... I snipped the mounting holes into slots, then punched a 1-1/8" hole in the end cap of the cover - then made the hole into a "U" to go over the actuator rod/bellows.
A couple of 1" 10-24 machine screws got the heads cut off, and now serve as studs in the bellhousing. I can now get at the hold-down nuts with a wrench to remove the cover.
Last step was actually bolting up the transmission. This thing's a beast!
I picked up a few long bolts the same thread as the bellhousing, and cut off the heads to make alignment dowels/rods. A few passes in the end with the hacksaw and I've got screwdriver slots to remove them.
I purposely only did 3, leaving the last open for a bolt. After getting things all jigged up and started, I wanted a way to "hold onto" the progress I'd made using the bolt. After several choice cuss-words and a lot of fiddly/wiggling/jerking there was a satisfying THUNK - and the gearbox was mated up.
The actuator rod access cover was removed, and I started fitting the actuator rod itself. It's a universal-fit part, and requires trimming to length. I needed to shorten it by about an inch. I then set the freeplay of the throw-out bearing, locked it down, installed the cover and done.
After powerwashing the house, I got back into the garage.
Don't want to bore you with more pics, but I swapped the stock Mustang oil pan with the "built to spec" Moroso pan for the FFR Roadsters. Pretty simple stuff, gotta love the new/modern gaskets.
(And yes, I did the trick with the baggie on the pickup, and play-doh in the sump to check clearance... it's 3/8".)